floped a set...time to get paid
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

BB ($288.10)
UTG ($192)
UTG+1 ($147.40)
MP1 ($177.40)
MP2 ($391.75)
MP3 ($332)
Hero ($198.80)
Button ($149.70)
SB ($198.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $4</font>, MP1 calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $10, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $6, MP1 calls $6.

Flop: ($43) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $30</font>, Hero calls $30, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: ($103) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $60</font>,

anyone get more aggro on flop? Is turn bet OK? My reasoning for just calling flop was to try and get money in from the other two guys

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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anyone get more aggro on flop?

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I would raise the flop to 60 because it looks like you are just challenging their c-bet with position.

If he calls and you 1/2 pot the turn your hand doesn't look as strong as it is, and it's easy to get the rest in on the river.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

i don't like check calling with 2 players behind you, i would either have bet out $40 or $45, or check with the intention of raising to at least $100. I like a PSB or all in on the turn.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

I like the way you played this. Not much you can do if your opponent has Ace high, he is not paying off anything.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

Call behind on the flop hoping somebody's got AJ, T9, etc. On the blank turn this looks like a miss so you've got to try to get some money out there. Hopefully this is not a c/r trap. I call the flop because I'd like to see if I can find another caller. When I hit bottom set either nobody has a hand or I'm up against set over set. Better to win a small pot.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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My reasoning for just calling flop was to try and get money in from the other two guys

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There aren't any draws, with that action you are usually getting folds or a push.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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Not much you can do if your opponent has Ace high, he is not paying off anything.

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That's why I would rather try to get a call on the flop instead of hoping for him to catch on the turn and insta folding to any blank.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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Call behind on the flop hoping somebody's got AJ, T9, etc.

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Based on the preflop action I doubt UTG or MP2 has AJ or T9, so you are gambling that MP1 has something instead of trying to extract more from MP2 who has shown interest.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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anyone get more aggro on flop?

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I would raise the flop to 60 because it looks like you are just challenging their c-bet with position.

If he calls and you 1/2 pot the turn your hand doesn't look as strong as it is, and it's easy to get the rest in on the river.

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Since when does a minraise in a multiway reraised pot not look at all strong?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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i don't like check calling with 2 players behind you, i would either have bet out $40 or $45, or check with the intention of raising to at least $100. I like a PSB or all in on the turn.

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When there is a bet in front of you your only options are to fold, call, or raise. Checking and betting are impossible.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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My reasoning for just calling flop was to try and get money in from the other two guys

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There aren't any draws, with that action you are usually getting folds or a push.

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Why should he be more inclined to protect his hand on drawless flops than on boards where his opponents could actually have hands he needs to protect against?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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Not much you can do if your opponent has Ace high, he is not paying off anything.

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That's why I would rather try to get a call on the flop instead of hoping for him to catch on the turn and insta folding to any blank.

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What is the benefit to raising the flop if your opponent is drawing dead and will (correctly) fold?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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Call behind on the flop hoping somebody's got AJ, T9, etc.

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Based on the preflop action I doubt UTG or MP2 has AJ or T9, so you are gambling that MP1 has something instead of trying to extract more from MP2 who has shown interest.

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After you call the flop you have $160 left in a $100 pot. How hard can it possibly be to get the rest of your stack in with position across two more betting rounds? What's the rush?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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Since when does a minraise in a multiway reraised pot not look at all strong?

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I didn't say it wasn't strong.

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After you call the flop you have $160 left in a $100 pot. How hard can it possibly be to get the rest of your stack in with position across two more betting rounds? What's the rush?

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Everybody seems to think villain doesn't have anything and is looking to fold.

If that's the case, in my experience, some donk at Party NL200 calling a minraise, is more likely than someone calling a blank turn if they check it.

I don't think villain is that weak based on the preflop action. Although UTG only raised to 4, MP2 didn't seem worried about getting re-raised again preflop, so I wouldn't rule out an overpair.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

If he has an overpair then what's wrong with calling?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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If he has an overpair then what's wrong with calling?

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Absolutely nothing.

Most of the time I would call, but OP gives no read on villain, so I tend to post based on what I have seen lately, which has been aggressive donks thinking I am making a play more than smart thinking players [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If OP had said villain was solid, then I would say call.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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My reasoning for just calling flop was to try and get money in from the other two guys


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There aren't any draws, with that action you are usually getting folds or a push.

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Why should he be more inclined to protect his hand on drawless flops than on boards where his opponents could actually have hands he needs to protect against?

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If someone checks a strong hand and gets a raise and a call behind, I don't think they are usually calling.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

And once again, why do you want to make people fold when they are drawing dead?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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And once again, why do you want to make people fold when they are drawing dead?

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I see your point, but I was putting MP2 on the overpair, not UTG+1 or MP1.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

Certainly you would be challenging the CB with a raise, but you mighht take the pot down for no gain. A call hopefully gets at least one other caller. When the turn blanks there just isn't anything there. What kind of hand do you think checks and calls a 1/2 pot turn bet? Villain won't always have a good second-best hand.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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If he has an overpair then what's wrong with calling?

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Absolutely nothing.

Most of the time I would call, but OP gives no read on villain, so I tend to post based on what I have seen lately, which has been aggressive donks thinking I am making a play more than smart thinking players [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If OP had said villain was solid, then I would say call.

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your advice is a bit confusing...If MP2 doesn't have anything I minraise he would have to be an absolute MANIAC to push bluff. The only way I am getting any more money if he has AK is if he bluffs or if he catches an A or a K on the turn.

I assumed he had an overpair here, (if he has 2 overcards calling as opposed to raising is even better) although maybe he could be overly aggro with AK. I figured if I just called it would look like QQ/maybe AJ (if he doesn't know I'd fold it pf.) + could maybe get donkey minraiser to stay in with AJ or something.

Villian actually folded turn and I was really curious what he had. If he was a very good player he would know I probably had a set here, since I wouldn't play anything else like this (although others would).

If I was villian I would probably play it exactly the same way he did with an overpair or with AK (cept I'd raise more pf).

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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your advice is a bit confusing...If MP2 doesn't have anything I minraise he would have to be an absolute MANIAC to push bluff.

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When I said someone would either fold or push, it was in response your statement about wanting the other two to come along, it was not about MP2. See below:

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My reasoning for just calling flop was to try and get money in from the other two guys [ QUOTE ]
There aren't any draws, with that action you are usually getting folds or a push.

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If you look at the preflop action, it is reasonable to put MP2 on AA-JJ and AK.

If villain has an overpair, he is not folding to a minraise. Your bet could easily look like you had top pair or were just contesting his continuation bet.

If villain has AK, yeah, he might fold to your minraise on the flop, however, I see it all the time where someone does a continuation bet in early position, a late position player weak raises, and the EP player calls with nothing but overcards.

However, I rarely see someone in early position bet with AK, get a call, then comes a blank turn, they check, the late position player bets, and they call.

I am simply going by my observations, I will see people call a raise behind on the flop if they lead with overs, but I don't see them check a blank turn and then call a bet.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

Allright, thanks for your observations. I guess I see people calling min raises with overs but usually not a $30 raise.

I appreiciate all the time you have put into this hand/

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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I guess I see people calling min raises with overs but usually not a $30 raise.

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A full raise of 30 is a bit high, 15-20 then.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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I guess I see people calling min raises with overs but usually not a $30 raise.

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A full raise of 30 is a bit high, 15-20 then.

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$30 is minimum I can raise man.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

Hero played this fine IMO. Flop is pretty dry. I woulda bet a little more on the turn though, like 65-70.

Hero said he wanted to keep others in, and his flop call does just that. He didnt want to isolate, so he made a read about what he though was best and chose the best line to do so.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

tough to jam that flop without saying, 'please fold your overpair, i REALLY HAVE A SET"

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

looks like your flop call kind of slowed him down.. i dont mind the bet at all on the turn.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

this thread is really confusing.

as it is, if you think he has an OP then i:
call flop
2/3rds the pot or raise A-I on turn.
if i've still got money its going in on river

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

I raise flop to 100 but they way you played it is OK too since there is no flush draw. But I still dont like it becuase some1 may call with gutshot and stack you.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

As played I would of checked behind on the turn. Villian's play screams of AK. I would give him the opportunity to bluff the river, and if an Ace or King hits he will pay you off anyways. If he has the overpair he is leading the river. The turn bet is solid but i've been incorporating this line a little more in my play lately.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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I raise flop to 100 but they way you played it is OK too since there is no flush draw. But I still dont like it becuase some1 may call with gutshot and stack you.

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I don't see it as a bad thing if someone makes a -EV chase against me...

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

Dont mean to hijack this thread..but his heroes's cold call prefolp standard?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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Dont mean to hijack this thread..but his heroes's cold call prefolp standard?

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yes

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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As played I would of checked behind on the turn. Villian's play screams of AK. I would give him the opportunity to bluff the river, and if an Ace or King hits he will pay you off anyways. If he has the overpair he is leading the river. The turn bet is solid but i've been incorporating this line a little more in my play lately.

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I agree with this. For me, betting the turn is the same as raising the flop. This turn is a blank and can't have helped him. If you thought he would call this turn bet you should have raised the flop. But as you didn't, you must now check the blank turn. If he has a big pair he is betting out on the river anyway and you can raise him. If he has AK (which looks likely) he might either catch up or try a bluff on the river.
Check the turn. If he checks to you again on the river put in a small bet and hope to get raised.

By the way, am I the only person who wasn't too keen on hero's preflop call? I don't know what you knew about UTG+1 (original raiser) but you were in danger of getting squeezed between the two raisers which is a nasty spot to be in with a small pocket pair.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

"hope to get raised"

Dude, this is how a fish thinks. It's passive and it's bad.

The call on the flop is to keep others in the pot.

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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$30 is minimum I can raise man.

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I was kidding.

BTW, I agree with Rob, if you raise the flop and the turn blanks, check and hope he leads the river, if not, bet at least half the pot.

This line wins more for me than calling flop, betting blank turn. (Only in regards to this specific preflop/flop action and board texture.)

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

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"hope to get raised"

Dude, this is how a fish thinks. It's passive and it's bad.

The call on the flop is to keep others in the pot.

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If he has raised preflop, put in what looks like a standard continuation bet on the flop and then checked the turn and the river, are you telling me that you would put in a big bet on the river? What are you hoping to acheive other than making him fold his overcards?

Re: floped a set...time to get paid
 

Make it 95 on the flop.