Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

I have been playing poker online since the start of December... My goal from the beginning was to play poker for a living. I bought and read and reread several books, and I'm fairly confident I have the skill/ability to make it. I'm a 24 year old college dropout, and i live with my mother and work a crappy 3rd shift job that pays $14/hour. I am completely sick of my routine as it is, and I see no quicker way to get out of it then to play poker 20+ hours a week and at the very least greatly supplement my income, so I can move out of the house (finally)... I've only played 20K hands, and my results so far have been good but not great (slightly over 2BB/100) playing 1/2 (6 max), 2/4, 3/6 and 5/10 (6 max) at Party.

Nevertheless, I've only played one night the last 2 weeks. I simply cannot stand the possibility of losing money. It doesn't matter that I have 500 BB's, I still get pissed off when I lose $100 playing 3/6. When I drop down limits I play carelessly, and I tend to lose money and then move up in order to get it back without grinding it out. When I get ahead, I quit. If I start playing again, and start of losing, I will play the rest of the night until I can get back to even. I KNOW I have many bad habits when it comes to poker and managing my bankroll. I've managed to win $2K so far... almost the same amount I made "working" all that time.

I can say with maybe 90% confidence that I have what it takes ability-wise to make poker very profitable for me. I just don't think I have what it takes to handle the psychological swings.

The catch is, if I quit poker, I resign myself to working at a crappy, go nowhere job where my superiors have absolutely no idea what they are doing. I do not like that option.

So lately I've just been stalling... I don't want to officially quit poker nor do I want to commit myself to playing. If I quit, I figure now is a good time so at least I can say I won some money and use it to buy a new car (my car was stolen a week ago while at work, and found totaled a couple days later). Playing occasionally isn't really an option for me...

I also see a shrink (have been since I was 14) and realize I have psychological problems (I am mildly autistic according to my pyschiatrist). Poker probably isn't for me, but grinding out a routine job most certainly isn't either.

Not sure what the point of this was. I guess I'd like to be able to start playing poker again, even though at this point it doesn't seem like a good idea.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Best of luck to you, whatever you do.

Since you are seeing a shrink, you are aware that you
have 'issues'. Playing poker may not be good for you
right now, but none of us here can really say.

Suggest you bring it up with your Counsellor? Of course
you know that you are far from being into the long run
at poker, and there is some chance that you are not a
winning player. Even though you probably are.

Again, all the best.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

I'm no psychiatrist, but I recognize this behavior from past experience. You want to be able to say to yourself that you have this way to escape your current station in life, but you're afraid to really give it your best shot because you might fail, and then what have you got left? It's not at all unlike people who can barely afford the rent, yet will spend $50 a week on lotto & scratch off tickets hoping to hit that one big jackpot that'll change everything.

I'm not trying to sound snide or anything, but as someone who has walked down the road you're traveling right now, you would probably be much better off taking that $2,000 you've won and investing it in tuition at a local junior college.

As far as actually making a good living off of poker, remember this: You and I and most of the people who frequent these forums are already in the minority among poker players. We win more money than we lose. I obviously don't have exact numbers, but I think it's safe to assume that somewhere in the vicinity of 0.1% of all winning players have what it takes mentally, emotionally, and skill-wise to actually make a comfortable living just by playing poker. Or somewhere in the ballpark of the odds of a random high school football player going on to an NFL career.

I'm glad to see that you're taking steps besides poker to better yourself, and I hope that everything you're doing does work out for you. If I could make one suggestion, and perhaps you've heard this before, you might want to consider trying some freelance writing work. I know this is just a random post on a web forum, but you write very well.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Bottom line...if ur already seeing a psychatrist and r recognizing u have a problem with the mental side of poker then thats a good indication for u to stop playin for now or play at lower limits until u learn to control the mental side of ur poker. Autism is shroaded by routine, and if u have a mild case then this shouldnt impead on u too much. Although, some people in psychology r complete morons and if they say a mild case there is a chance u dont have it at all but they r mentally handicapping u makin u THINK u do. Foremost, i wouldnt look to poker as ur "way out" of ur life as is. In a way ur looking for a quick easy way out of ur situation, and ur situation is not one that can be solved by the quick and easy way...the simple route can only hurt u and put u back to square one. If u dont like ur job ur in now...look around at how u can get into a field u enjoy...if it requires schooling...take out loans, dont look to "gambling" as an answer, unless u can overcome ur mental issue with it poker is just going to dig u into a deeper darker hole

You are only 24
 

The good news is you are only 24. Your life will take many turns, and I promise you that in 5 years you will be doing something totally unexpected. This is 100% true.

I do not want to sound mean, but I will be candid. You feel like a loser because you have failed at most of the things you have tried this far in life. You live at home with your mother (perhaps your friends do not), you have little money, you have a crappy job, and you dropped out of college.

Only you have the ability to change this. If you believe that professional poker is the way to go, then I encourage you to give it a shot. You are young enough that none of your mistakes are irrevocable. If in 6 months you are not making progress, then stop and reevaluate.

On the practical side, your poker sounds undisciplined, and you need to tighten up your game. The fact that you play everything from 1/2 (6 max) to 5/10 (6 max) tells me that you are just screwing around and trying for a big hit. If you want to turn pro, you need to grind and conquer a limit before moving up.

Another issue for you is bankroll management. You need to avoid the "risk of ruin" and make sure that you do not play outside your bankroll. I recommend 1000 BBs before even thinking about moving up. Ideally, you'd have 1000 BBs plus 6 months living expenses before you could consider turning pro.

Finally, don't make "moving out of the house" your first priority. The last thing you need, if you're trying to get the scratch for a bankroll, is more financial pressure. If your mom is kind enough to let you live at home, take advantage of that, and save your money--you will need it for those -200 BB downswings.

Bottom line:

1. On the poker thing, go for it! You are young. But treat it like a job, please.

2. Seriously re-evaluate your game and make sure you are playing a disciplined, grinding game. (I find multitabling an excellent way to stay tight aggressive.)

3. Don't create unnecessary external financial pressures like moving out from your mom's house. Instead, think of it as free rent and a headstart in building a bankroll.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

The most intelligent thing you can do is go back to college.
Just read what you've written. You have clearly stated that you can't handle the psychological swings, but they are an ABSOLUTELY INESCAPABLE part of poker. If you can't handle them, you have no chance at all to succeed as a pro. So get the education you need to succeed at something else.
Regards,
Al

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

I can relate to what you are going through. I actually have a pretty good job that I enjoy (well, most of the time). But I don't make a lot of money. When I saw all these college kids (and my college days are long gone) on tv, or on 2+2, raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars playing poker, I began to see poker as my ticket to a more comfortable existence. I had played poker as a hobby (and done quite well) for many years, but now I began to think about poker as a part-time job, with thoughts of going full-time one day.

Well from the moment I started thinking of it like a job and not a pasttime, my play deteriorated. I was putting too much pressure on myself. I got very mad when I lost - not because my bankroll couldn't afford it, but because it made me think "who am I kidding, I'll never be a pro".

Once I decided to focus more on other areas of my life, and treat poker as a fun (and profitable) hobby, my play improved. True, I'm not getting mega-rich or quitting my day job. But I've been able to buy myself and my wife some nice extras with my poker winnings, and I enjoy playing much more than I used to.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't try to make it as a pro. But you can't underestimate how tough the swings can be psychologically. It looks easy on tv, but I don't think I have the personality to make poker my living - even if I was good enough (which I'm probably not, but that's another story).

There are many, many ways to improve your life and your situation and make more money. You are young. It isn't "poker or nothing". Best of luck to you.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore... *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Ignore the idiot.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

[ QUOTE ]
am mildly autistic according to my pyschiatrist

[/ QUOTE ]

In all seriousness, mild autism is overdiagnosed (along with adult ADD). Don't put that label on yourself just because someone else did.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

I'm barred.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

get a new day job

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Just b/c someone is MIDLY autistic doesnt mean they r RETARDED...it makes me ALMOST think u r from sayin such a thing! Go look it up before u speak and look like a fool AND hurt someones feelings. And as i started in my post before dont believe what a doctor sometimes says when they say MILD...usually u dont have it, they r just givin u some reason b/c as a doctor they arent good enough to figure it out or they r just raking in money. If u dont feel u really r go look up autism and the characterists, Ive done a thesis on it so if u want that ill send it to u, but i doubt u r hendered by this disorder, if u r, im sorry but IF it is mild then ur fine.

Bottom line, like i said before u shouldnt be playin poker if u cant deal with it mentally, either try and find a way or dont play, it will only hurt u more.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

[ QUOTE ]
MILDLY AUTISTIC?!?! LMAO
If he/she ain't callin you an idiot savant then quit the game. There's no room for retards in poker, unless your in my game, I'd take your money so quick you'd be back to your shrink trying to get some sort of retard health benefits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the laugh. I would suggest that you take your own advice and quit poker (I'll let you figure that one out).

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The catch is, if I quit poker, I resign myself to working at a crappy, go nowhere job where my superiors have absolutely no idea what they are doing. I do not like that option

[/ QUOTE ]

this is pure unadulterated defeatest BULLISHSHIT.

you are the captain of your life you can do whatever you choose. if you choose wrong you can change and do somthing else.

release your fear and clear your scuttled by being STILL.

S- Sit up straight
T- Take in breath deeply
I- Introspect on your purpose for being.
L- Let in all sensations,
L- Let go of all thoughts and awaremess,

Do this daily and your path will become clear.

timmer

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

[ QUOTE ]
MILDLY AUTISTIC?!?! LMAO
If he/she ain't callin you an idiot savant then quit the game. There's no room for retards in poker, unless your in my game, I'd take your money so quick you'd be back to your shrink trying to get some sort of retard health benefits.

[/ QUOTE ]

This means he is probably a borderline genius if not a full blown genius. I've meet some mildly and totally autistic people who's mental capabilities and potential seem limitless.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just b/c someone is MIDLY autistic doesnt mean they r RETARDED...it makes me ALMOST think u r from sayin such a thing! Go look it up before u speak and look like a fool AND hurt someones feelings. And as i started in my post before dont believe what a doctor sometimes says when they say MILD...usually u dont have it, they r just givin u some reason b/c as a doctor they arent good enough to figure it out or they r just raking in money. If u dont feel u really r go look up autism and the characterists, Ive done a thesis on it so if u want that ill send it to u, but i doubt u r hendered by this disorder, if u r, im sorry but IF it is mild then ur fine.

Bottom line, like i said before u shouldnt be playin poker if u cant deal with it mentally, either try and find a way or dont play, it will only hurt u more.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe I was slightly insensitive and didn't clearly express my thoughts.

1) keep a working day job and do not go pro
2) the current day job is unsatisfying so a new one is needed
3) I am slightly ADD (no diagnosis). I guess I can relate?

that is all
~Reef

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
am mildly autistic according to my pyschiatrist

[/ QUOTE ]

In all seriousness, mild autism is overdiagnosed (along with adult ADD).

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget to add Dyslexia to that list (or is that what you call ADD in the States?)

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

I have a very similar personal history as you do and I have had the same problem multiple times. I’m 25 and am living with my parents as well. I'm going to tell you my personal story because I think if you hear from someone who is going through similar life difficulties and is pulling out of it, you can get what you really need right now—hope.

I went to college with great expectations and completely failed. I developed a drinking problem that made my chance of success virtually nil. But I didn’t fail because of my drinking but drank to give myself an excuse to fail. I was in college 3 ½ years before I faced reality and quit. I blamed my drinking for my failure and isolated myself from my friends, moved back home, and quit drinking.

My father was a financial planner and had his own firm and offered me an opportunity to join him in business. I went to the technical college and got my insurance license by taking a 48 hour course and passed the state exam. I was going to start by selling long term care insurance and transition into annuities and maybe securities. My dad also was going to pay me a salary to help him with prospecting (i.e. setting up seminars, setting appointments by lead/cold calling, and doing clerical work). The plan was to slowly transition from an assistant to selling LTC insurance full time. I did this for two years and only made a few sales. I then sunk into depression and couldn’t work. Fortunately the sales I did make gave me residual commissions of a few hundred a month and I was living with my parents with hardly any expenses. My monthly commissions gave me barley enough to cover my monthly expenses for health and car insurance. Rent and food were covered by my parents.

My life seemed hopeless until a year and a half ago when I was watching TV one day and saw my first episode of the world poker tour. I had never played poker before but something caught my attention with this show. I was fascinated by the strategy and amazed that “gambling” could be +EV in the long term given enough skill. I soon desired to play poker but didn’t have the money or the confidence to do so. I had no plans of becoming a pro because the players on the world poker tour seemed mythical to me and I assumed it would be like aspiring to be a professional athlete. I did have a computer game that had various card games in it and it had a freeze out 5 card draw spread limit tournament I could play. It wasn’t hold’em but it was poker. It was fun and satiated my urge to play poker for about a month. I became bored with it because the computer would call with anything and I noticed if I played only good hands I would win ¾ of the time. This didn’t satisfy my longing for the mental warfare I was watching on TV. I needed to play against humans.

Not too long later I found out about internet poker while doing a google search looking a new poker computer game that was hold’em. I downloaded Pacific Poker because it was the first one I saw that advertised that I could play for free. I downloaded it and was in for a shock—the human players were worse than my computer game! The players were worse and I couldn’t win. I had a hard time understanding limit hold’em (at the time that was all Pacific offered). I was used to playing spread limit 5 card draw and watched NL tournament hold’em on TV. I then found that if I played in the sit and go tournaments people would actually fold hands and it wasn’t just a lottery. I was also found that I was moderately beating the game.

One day I was watching CNN and saw an interview with Jim McManus about his experience at the WSOP that led to his writing of Positively Fifth Street. Jim credited his 5th place finish to “…memorizing Sklansky’s book”. That interview inspired me and I jotted down the name Sklansky on a piece of paper. It also spawned the idea of playing for real money in my head. I went to the book store and looked for a poker book by a guy names Sklansky and ran across Hold’em Poker. I bought it and it blew my mind and transformed by game. All of a sudden I was cashing in just about all of the play money tournaments I entered. This also had the side effect of ruining those same games for me and had me desiring to play against better opponents.

At this time in my life I was a complete wreck. I was 24 years old with no job, no friends, no money, and a dormant drinking problem that I knew would rear its ugly head if I ever drank again. I viewed myself as a complete loser with no future. This was being off set on the other hand in my growing pride and confidence in my ability to play poker. An out was developing in my mind. I started to watch the real money games and quickly noticed that even the .05/.10 games would be a lot tougher than the play money games and if poker was going to be my ticket out of loserdom I would have to work hard at developing my poker game. I went back to the bookstore and bought HEPFAP and developed a game plan to go pro. I would begin by depositing $100 and get the $25 deposit bonus and play with that only. I did this and immediately withdrew the $100 (pacific is one of the rare rooms that releases the bonus right away but puts a restriction on cashing it out). I would then give myself a $5 bankroll out of that and start playing .05/.10. The other $15 was backup bankroll in my mind. I did this as a mental trick because I was terrified of losing money even if it wasn’t mine. This was exactly one year ago.

I played .05/.10 while I was working through HEPFAP and quickly made progress. I would play 4 to 8 hours a day and read 2-4 hours. In about four weeks I had worked my way up to a $650 bankroll and was playing 3/6 (I had no idea how bad of an idea this was or anything about bankroll management yet). During this time I bought TOP to supplement my studying. Then variance crawled out from under the bed like the boogie man in a 4 year old’s imagination, only this was real. I started to lose money and fast. I had to drop down to 2/4, then to 1/ 2, still losing at .5/1, now down to .25/.5. I stopped when my bankroll got down to $160, thoroughly disgusted. I withdrew my money and swore to never play poker again. I blamed the stupid fish, I blamed my luck, but deep down I was blaming myself for not being good enough.

I didn’t play poker again for two and a half months. I planned on never playing again and being happy with the money I had made, but the seed had been planted. Playing poker had been extremely therapeutic when it was going well. It gave me an identity. It gave me a reason to be proud of myself. The losing streak was especially hard because it shattered my new found self esteem. I couldn’t get away from the craving of the strategy I loved however. I wanted back in. I hit the books again and identified what had happened. My good luck streak dried up and I reacted by tilting like a pinball machine. My losing streak was a function of my bad play caused by tilt rather that a bad run of cards (I was also vastly under bankrolled but wasn’t sophisticated enough to realize it at the time).

By chance I was surfing around the internet and found someone who was offering to give anyone $25 just to sign up at paradise poker on top of a 25% bonus. I was back. I deposited $200 but this time I couldn’t use the $50 deposit bonus until I played a bunch of raked hands. I also was delighted to see that paradise had no limit ring games. This sparked my interest, now I could make the fish really pay to draw out on me. I bought Super System and Reuben and Ciaffone’s no limit book and started anew. I started in the two dollar buy in and worked my way up. In two or three weeks my bonus was cleared and I had made over a thousand dollars. I was beside myself with how fast I was making money in NL. I was playing in the $200 buy in game and considered myself a pro already. Then I lost $600 in two hours. This made me want to puke and was much worse than before. Now I look back and laugh, this is what happens when one doesn’t understand bankroll needs.

Instead of wanting to quit, like I did the first time, I got determined. I bought Gambling Theory and Other Topics and started to study this little bitch named variance. I briefly skimmed it and began to understand that I needed a much bigger bankroll than I though I did. This was when I started to read these forums as well. I also ran across another site that ranked the various internet sites by how soft the players were. It also listed info about bonuses and freerolls. This is when I thought I made a break through. I found a site (royal vegas) that would give me a 50% bonus and had daily $1,000 freerolls with first place being $250. I withdrew the money I had left at paradise and deposited at RV. I started to play in the $50 buy in ring game and 2 of the freerolls everyday. Everything was going well again. In a few weeks I had made a couple grand and even won the freeroll twice. I hit a losing streak again but this time recovered and the thought of being a pro was a real possibility again. Then all of a sudden, I couldn’t get into the freerolls. At RV you have to play 50 raked hands to be able to enter the freeroll. This didn’t make any sense because I was playing at least 300 raked hands a day and this was a big deal because I was cashing so often that it was becoming a significant % of my win rate. RV’s customer support basically told me they didn’t believe me and wouldn’t help me. At the same time I hit another huge losing streak and became completely disillusioned again.

I quit playing poker again and began to re-access the situation. I decided I needed to get a picture of what it would be like to be a professional so I bought Gambling for a Living and finally got a realistic picture of what a good player can expect to win at the various limits and more importantly the 300 BB rule. I bought Mason’s Poker Essays 3 because of a recommendation from someone who thought it was the best of that series. In this Mason has an essay in which he asserts his opinion that limit is harder than no limit. This confused me because I thought no limit was the more sophisticated game, thus being harder. Mason’s argument was, more or less, that since you have less information in limit, it is harder. This was counter-intuitive for me to understand at first but thinking of his ideas led me to finally realize what I was doing wrong. At pacific I was bouncing around the limits with no discipline. I then ran away from pacific to the greener grass of the NL ring games at paradise. When that didn’t work out as well as I wanted, I ran away again to another easy fix. I was trying to build the roof of my poker house before I had laid the foundation. I needed to go back to the micro limit games and establish some discipline.

This was last June and Small Stakes Hold’em wasn’t out yet so I bought winning low limit hold’em by Lee Jones as my tool to help me lay my foundation. I also started to read these forums more. From reading the forums I decided that I would be well served to start at the Party network playing .5/1. As I was working through my new book I hit a problem however. Lee Jones was suggesting a style that was vastly more passive than what I normally would play. I was having a hard time with it because it was running against my instinct. All the two plus two books I had read and Super System had all came to me quickly because it fit the way I would naturally play. It was like swimming with the current. I was definitely swimming up stream with WLLH. I decided finally to just trust the advice. All the reviews were real positive at Amazon and besides, who was I to disagree with a professional who had been playing much longer than me. The problem began when I started to play. I just wasn’t comfortable with this new style and I just happened to run bad again at the same time losing 75 BB as I worked through it. This was the hardest losing streak I had had up to date. First off, I felt like I was a losing player because I played thousands of hands trying to grind out of it. I was just beginning to understand variance but I still didn’t really understand I was using too small of a sample size. Secondly, I had now been doing this for seven months and the fear that I was going down a dead end street began to grow. Aside from poker I was also battling my inner demons trying to beat my depression and find purpose in my life. Again I took some time off to gather my thoughts.

To access where I was and where I was going I began to read more. I started to read the forums almost exclusively and began to post. I even made one of those infamous “should I go pro” posts that everyone loves to hate. I really started to get a good picture of what I would be in for playing professionally by reading this forum. I learned that my 75 BB losing streak will not be my biggest. I can expect at least a 200 BB losing streak eventually and I need to be able to view a 75 BB losing streak like just a blip on the radar that will happen fairly often. I can expect back pain if I don’t keep vigilant about my posture while I play. I also learned about poker tracker and game time plus and realized that the fact that I didn’t have these programs was a huge hole in my game. I learned that if I got a monitor with 1600 x 1200 resolution, I could play 4 tables at the same time with no overlap. This would have the effect that I could make a living playing much lower stakes than if I play only one or two tables like I had been doing. It will also make hitting the long run happen much quicker, which will help my psyche deal with the all the inevitable 100 BB losing streaks I can expect to happen. I learned about what a rakeback deal was and just how significant that can be to bolster my earnings. Finally I learned that I needed to get Small Stakes Hold’em.

Three months ago I restarted my poker career again. This time I had SSH as my strategy guide and this was as counter-intuitive as WLLH was for me. This time it was much more aggressive than I was used to but I can see the genius in this work and I don’t have to just trust it like I did with WLLH because it has a logical continuity to it. When a tough concept finally hits, it’s bright as day in my mind and then seems obvious that the given concept is correct. I have also set up a rakeback account and got poker tracker and game time plus. Those two programs used in conjunction are incalculably valuable and triple anyone’s ability to make correct decisions immediately in my opinion. I have done thorough research on this site to give myself rock solid estimates of what I can expect to earn at the various limits. I’ve tried to foreshadow potential pitfalls that can occur when I finally do move out of the parent’s house and I am reliant on poker to survive. The big one I can see is the growth in my ability to spend money outstripping the growth of my income. I plan to become a fanatical saver to ward off this danger.

Right now I am playing 1 / 2 6 max tables on the party network and I plan on staying there until I have fixed all of the major holes I can see in my game. Anytime I am unclear as to what to do in a given situation or have even a little bit of doubt, I have found a hole. Unless the right play is obvious then I am not strong enough in that area. I am confident that I will be able to make it professionally and don’t have to ask anyone here for their opinion because I no longer think I can make it, I know I can make it. I know because I have spent many hours observing the 3/6 game (in my mind the minimum limit I would have to master to make a good living) and can quickly see players make mistakes and can explain to myself why it’s a mistake and what I would have done instead. It is completely obvious to me that I can beat 3/6 and I will worry about the higher limits when I get there.

The reason I wrote all of this to you Ozzzz, was because I have had more time than you to devote to poker and thinking about life in general because I have been unemployed. This has given me the opportunity to make mistakes, recover, make some more mistakes, recover, and in the end find answers. I have gone through four periods where I couldn’t get myself to play. I overcame my fear to play by first a brutally honest reality check, then from the knowledge of those who know more than I do. What you need is confidence and confidence will come from knowledge and discipline. There are also two more poker books I have found to be critical: Inside the Poker Mind by John Feeney and The Psychology of Poker by Alan Schoonmaker. Two non poker books that you would be well served to read also: Psychocybernetics by Maxwell Maltz and Permission to Succeed by Noah St. John. I have found that working on my understanding my psyche and developing my spiritual life to be helpful in getting me out of the depths of depression. That has been key to my poker game.

As far as poker is concerned, my advice to you is slow down. There is no hurry and building a solid foundation will save you a lot of time in the long term. Read these forums and post questions. Stay away from cardplayer magazine, it’s too vague to be useful. Realize that as you increase your knowledge, finding motivation to play will become easier. Finally never listen to the haters and nay sayers that occasionally troll around here.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Good luck to you.

jokerthief

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

If you would devote the same amount of time to something other than poker, you would move out, and make more money.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

But then I wouldn't get to play a fun game all day.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

The only person who can make you stay at a job you don't like is you. If you have a decent work history, didn't call in sick much, etc, (or even if you did), it shouldn't be too hard to get a job you like more. Even something like selling cell phones can pay rather well and doesn't require any college. The main part of a typical sales job is listening to customers and being nice, really.

The $ per hour is secondary in a good job, though. If you can find something you like doing and get paid for it, you are ahead of 95% of everyone else. If you worked at a non-"crappy 3rd-shift job with stupid managers" for less per hour but liked the environment or product, you'd probably enjoy your day more.

For poker, if losing annoys you that much, you need to play at a limit where you don't think about the swings and realize swings are part of the game. If you play carelessly at lower levels, then you need to work on your discipline if you want to improve and that's all there is to it.

I have some concerns about the psychiatrist stuff. I've studied various forms of behavior theory and hypnosis and things, and half the time when I've chatted with psychologists/psychiatrists, they leave me disappointed. Many focus on finding the "why" you have a problem instead of the "how" to fix it. I have to wonder what the psychiatrist is doing if you still need to see him after 10 years. I don't know the specifics, and this is a sore spot with me after realizing how little most professionals know about changing someone's behavior, though.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

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am mildly autistic according to my pyschiatrist

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In all seriousness, mild autism is overdiagnosed (along with adult ADD).

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Don't forget to add Dyslexia to that list (or is that what you call ADD in the States?)

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ADD is Attention Deficit Disorder. Basically it means that someone is hyperactive and can't stay focused.

According to dictionary.com:

Dyslexia is a learning disorder marked by impairment of the ability to recognize and comprehend written words.

Autism is a psychiatric disorder of childhood characterized by marked deficits in communication and social interaction, preoccupation with fantasy, language impairment, and abnormal behavior, such as repetitive acts and excessive attachment to certain objects. It is usually associated with intellectual impairment.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

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I've only played 20K hands, and my results so far have been good but not great (slightly over 2BB/100) playing 1/2 (6 max), 2/4, 3/6 and 5/10 (6 max) at Party.

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incase this hasnt already been said. i dont think moving through limits this fast is wise.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

You sound like a man who says "I could be a champion swimmer, if only I could swim."

If you cannot handle the psychology of poker play then you cannot make a living at it.

Do you think you could be a porn star without having to take any clothes off?

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Life can be rough and with autism your dealt a tough hand. As far as poker your variance is coming from you and your anger at losing money. Poker can be an outlet to everyday boring life. The dream of hitting a big score is what keeps a lot of losing players hanging around. You need to be true to yourself and your capabilities of being a winning player. I see your first problem as extending your bankroll to far. If your down for a session you dont move up in limits to get it back. Thats the worst move you could make. I have a bankroll that allows me to play in the 5-10 NL on PS if I want. I play occasionally but not enogh that they would remember me. I stay in games way under my bankroll so the badbeats wont bother me so bad and it works. Ive built $50 into over 8 grand and play mostly the 1-2 NL. Why? Cause I can multi-table it for more than I make working for the city for 9 years now. Why leave a game and risk my bankroll for some pipe dream that does not have a shot of hitting. I am a winning player but I will never get rich from poker. I am not going to win a million dollar tournament on T.V. Statistically it will not happen for me and the other 99% population of players.

You need to stay down on your game selection and not extend yourself.
You need to keep your day job and use poker to supplement if you can.
Work on not getting pissed off.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Ozzzz,

Just wanted to write you a quick note and let you know that there are many people on this forum that can relate to your situation, including me. So first off, you're not a loser. You just think you are. The person that you GENUINELY believe you are is what others will see too. People will feed off your negativity and respond in kind. Fortunately this is a two-way street so if you're positive about life, you'll feel better and people will treat you better. A lot of the issues you're having right now stem from the fact that you're very insecure about your so-called disorder, living situation and your career, and what you're making of your life. You care about how others perceive you and that's understandable. This escape mentality you have is something I can really identify with, and all I can say is that you cannnot escape by playing poker or making some kind of quick fix. Because wherever you go, there you are. The great things in life are always difficult to acheive, that's what makes them so great. I was in your exact same situation about a year ago. I quit my job because I didn't like it, I was living at home with my mom while all my friends had moved out, and I didn't know what to do with my life. I was so tortured psychologically, and even though I've had plenty of experience dealing with downswings in poker, my insecurities about life magnified it tenfold. When you're feeling bad about yourself, it will always carry over to poker. I think it's very important for you right now to figure out what's important to you besides poker, and then go out there and work at it. You should be so grateful that you're young. Be happy about that. Most people (and I mean this literally, it's more than half the population of the entire world) would LOVE to be 24 again. So you don't need to change your life around right away, but you do need to work towards making some changes. I know that's not what you want to hear because it's a hard thing to do. But if you stay genuinely positive about life and do what you need to do, eventually things will work out for you. You can still play poker now but do it in moderation. Set a schedule for yourself, and when you're not playing do something towards reaching your other goals. LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB. I can tell you're an intelligent person, and you're probably not aware of your potential. Get out there and make mistakes. Let go. If you hate your job, then find a new one and quit that damn thing. There's nothing wrong with that.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Rather than reply to individual posts I'm just gonna respond to some of the ideas tossed out so far.

First, thanks for all the responses... they were significantly better on a whole than I expected.

Okay, now the points:

Re: Going back to school - It is a long term goal of mine to get a college degree, but most of my recent attempts have ended up being a waste of money. I simply have very little discipline when it comes to school - if I have no interest in a class I cannot force myself to do the work. I am still paying off student loans and right now don't want to risk spending any more money on school until I have more confidence in my ability to stay with it.

Re: Autism - Yes, I may or may not have autism, and just because a psychiatrist says I do doesn't mean it's true. To tell you the truth it doesn't really matter to me... what's more important is the fact that I:

1) Prefer to be alone. In fact, at times, I really, really, don't want to be around people. Particularly my mom. I don't have any friends, and don't really need any (though occasionally I will chat with people online). This is also why moving out of the house is such a huge priority for me.

2) I am obsessive. My thoughts are usually dominated by 1 thing for periods of time. That one thing may change in a week, a month, a year, etc... but the point is that whatever it may be, most everything else means very little in comparison at the time. This causes me to usually be very, very good at whatever I do (I am at or near "legend" status in many online strategy games, had a 2500 rating in lightning chess, etc.), but also take losing very, very badly. With these things it has always been an all or nothing attitude. Anything I have obsessed over I have dropped almost entirely from my life. That's why for me playing poker casually is not an option.

Re: Get a new job - I probably exaggerated a bit on how much I dislike my job. Overall, it has been a very good thing for me. It just hasn't developed the way I wanted it to. I used to obsess over it, and do everything I could to prove myself. I have since given up hope that it will ever lead to anything, and my work ethic has deteriorated greatly. There have also been some unfavorable changes lately. I used to work at another location dedicated to a large project (1.5 years), and had little supervision. Still, given my record I cannot expect to land anything better at this time.

Re: Poker Stuff - As I stated in my original post I definitely have not done things the right way, as far as managing my BR, moving up the limits, etc. I acknowledge that I am lucky so far to be ahead a good amount instead of losing my entire deposit. My bad BR management has been a result of my inability to handle the psychological swings of poker. Maybe over time I can learn to handle it better, or maybe not. I've always been a bad loser, and throwing money into the equation doesn't help.

Most have rightfully suggested that I do not follow through with my plans to become a poker professional. Nevertheless, I am not ready to quit. I described poker as my "only way out" before, and of course I was being ridiculous. What I really meant is that at the moment I do not see any short term ways to improve my life, other than poker. The one consistent thing about my life is that whatever my goals were one year ago, they have drastically changed. So long term planning isn't particularly useful for me...

I haven't played poker since my original post. I'm going to try again this weekend (Sunday/Monday is my weekend). I am going to set times and limits that I will play, and try my best to stick to them. If I fail to stick to the plan this time, then I will know that poker is not for me. For example if I move up to 5/10 after a couple bad beats playing 2/4, or if I play 3 hours longer than I planned trying to make up lost money, or quit 2 hours earlier because I am ahead, then I will admit to myself that I do not have what it takes psychologically to play poker for a living. I know I will probably fail, but I have to try anyways.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Id invest in an education if I were in your shoes.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

If you get bored with a normal college, and I wouldn't blame you if you do, I would recommend going the technical college route if you know what it is you'd like to go for. No sense in taking Japanese 101 and things if you have no interest in them and know you won't use them at all.

If you're obsessive and like being alone, those are two qualities made for professional gambling. Get the discipline part down and you might be good to go. And, really, right now there is so much bonus money around that even if you play break-even you could be making $10+ an hour just from playing signup and reload bonuses. Not enough to quit a day job, but enough to continue practicing while having something decent to show for it.

Re: Can\'t Make Myself Play Anymore...
 

Ozzzz,

I think you're way too hard on yourself. You seem like a very well-spoken, intelligent person. I sincerely doubt that you actually prefer to be alone. You seem to think that you deserve to be alone, maybe because of the way people have mistreated you in the past, and more importantly because of the way you treat yourself. I don't care how much you convince yourself that you prefer to be alone, I just don't think it's true. No one likes to be alone. Everyone likes to feel loved. It's human nature. You have some changing to do in my opinion. If you need my help, let me know.