QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

SB is TAG (17.5/12/2.3 over 3k hands)
CO is LAG (29/13/1.3 over 300 hands)

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13.00 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

What's the plan behind that check?

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

I don't get it, I bet here 100% of the time...

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

count me as confused

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it, I bet here 100% of the time...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, now that I've thought about it for a minute or two... are you trying to represent KK... and also seeing if SB will lead turn or not?

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

I can't rationalize the check.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

You're giving Ax, lower pocket pairs, and flush draws infinite odds.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

Here's my thought process:

- Sb's range of hands: AA-TT, AK, (maybe) AQs
- CO probably has some crap hand that I don't need to worry about much

So, if I bet, SB will most likely fold those hands that I beat: JJ, TT, AQs. On the other hand, he will probably check-raise those hands I don't: AA, KK, AK. Therefore, I lose bets when I'm ahead, and I pay more when I'm behind.

If I check, I can induce bets or calls from SB with a worse hand on future betting rounds. Also, giving a free card does not hurt me much since only three aces (the 4th must be in someone's hand) will hurt me. I'm not very worried about the FD since it is more likely that villian has something other than a spade draw, and CO could be on nearly anything, much less a FD.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

Yes, I'm giving them infinite odds, but I'm doing so in order to gain more bets than I would otherwise on future betting rounds. Besides, they don't have that many outs anyway. So, I'm probably gaining more than I'm losing.

With regard to the flush draw, I don't have significant reason to worry about it, as it is more likely that they are not on the flush draw.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

what if a 3rd spade hits on the free turn?

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Win the big pots right away

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

I still won't have any reason to think I'm behind until my opponents prove otherwise.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

I understand your idea, and what your saing here might be true. But i think the problem is that the play is very unnatural and it represents a flopped monster. I mean, what will he think about your hand when you check this flop? If he has a worse hand like JJ or possibly TT, he will suspect that you flopped a monster here, why would you else pretend to be weak? I dont know, its just a very odd play.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

I would have bet after the flop to see where I am. If you get raised, you know that your opponent probably has at least Kings. By checking, you miss the opportunity to find out if you are ahead or behind

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

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I dont know, its just a very odd play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the whole point. It is designed to confuse the opponent so that he'll put more bets in on future betting rounds with a worse hand when he would have folded otherwise.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
By checking, you miss the opportunity to find out if you are ahead or behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I do miss that opportunity. But I'm sacrificing that opportunity to gain more. When I check, and I'm ahead, I can probably induce two more bets or calls from a weaker hand like JJ or TT.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

This is the second post where I've seen you post your actions then try to defend everything you did in rebuttals to specific posts.

For me, I need to define my hand right now. I bet out. If the CO calls, he's probably on a K, maybe the flush draw. If the SB check-raises or check-calls, then I know where I am and what I need to get ahead.

I think here, with the overcard on the board, check-calling or check-raising is a mistake. A semi-bluff makes a lot more sense for me.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is the second post where I've seen you post your actions then try to defend everything you did in rebuttals to specific posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the whole point of these forums? People criticize your ideas, and you find the best argument to counter it. The process is repeated until the best idea is revealed. It's called the Socratic Method.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

I'd rather bet the flop and then check the turn if I'm going to take a line like this.

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

How showdown-committed are you? Will the LAG autobet the flop here? Are you trying to use the LAG to help define the TAG's hand?

Basically, what are you going to do if the LAG bets and the TAG checkraises?

Re: QQ w/ overcard on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is the second post where I've seen you post your actions then try to defend everything you did in rebuttals to specific posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the whole point of these forums? People criticize your ideas, and you find the best argument to counter it. The process is repeated until the best idea is revealed. It's called the Socratic Method.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's irony. I comment that you seem to come back and justify you're decisions when criticized and you respond by justifying your justifications. Gotta love it.

I was just making commentary. You do with it what you will, as you obviously do.

Side note: You're posts are great b/c they are situations I find myself in. I like the different ideas that get bounced around.