standard?
 

5/10 NL. I limp T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG. A fairly weak passive player, a little on the weird side, makes it $35 from MP. Folded to me, I call.

We've both got 1K behind.

Flop:

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, he bets $10.

I call like a good little fishie.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check. He bets $50. I call.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check again. He bets $50 again.

I call.

Re: standard?
 

No, not standard. Raise turn or river.

Re: standard?
 

I dont like the small betting...scares me.

Re: standard?
 

Is this live or online? I think it looks OK. Weirdo could have AQ and think it's the nuts though.

Re: standard?
 

id probably raise the turn or river and fold to a re-raise since villain could have AK/AQ. not sure how weak-passive villain is so can't say much. check-calling doesn't look bad from your player description but i just always throw in a raise somewhere if I have a full house. maybe it's a leak.

Re: standard?
 

is this 6 max or full ring?

I too hate the small bets and I like your line against this particular opponent but against a random I would try to get more money in there.

Re: standard?
 

If you're limping UTG with TT, then aren't you looking to limp re-raise? Otherwise just open the pot yourself.

Re: standard?
 

This hand is lame, dude.

Re: standard?
 

I think you're missing some serious value here especially against described opponent, and I'd prefer to lead something like $150 on the river and deal with a raise by calling it.

If I'm checking the river, it's definitely with the intent of check-raising.

I also prefer a turn check-raise to anything in case he's drawing or has a made hand like AJ.

You're not all that deep with 1K each, and I'm fine with going broke in this situation. All in all, very weakly played.

Garland

Re: standard?
 

I like betting quite a bit on the river and expecting a call from a lot of mediocre crap that has confused himself into thinking you're bluffing because of the weakness he's shown.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you're limping UTG with TT, then aren't you looking to limp re-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Re: standard?
 

if you're not going to put more money in when you hit your best card, fold the flop. you should raise somewhere with a boat.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you're not going to put more money in when you hit your best card, fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that's what I thought later.

Re: standard?
 

Why in the world would you not open the pot? Curious as to how you think limping then calling is of any value, especially since you lose a ton of the value TT affords if the pot is just limped all the way around.

Re: standard?
 

on that river bet of his, I checkraise allin!

Re: standard?
 

Lead pot on the turn and go from there.

-Jason

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
5/10 NL. I limp T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG. A fairly weak passive player, a little on the weird side, makes it $35 from MP. Folded to me, I call.

We've both got 1K behind.

Flop:

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, he bets $10.

I call like a good little fishie.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check. He bets $50. I call.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check again. He bets $50 again.

I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're the weak passive one :P

Re: standard?
 

I might have played it like you did against certain players at certain times.

Will HE call YOUR raise if he has three queens?

Will HE call YOUR raise if he has a straight?

If you thought the answers to those questions were no, then you played it best possible.

Re: standard?
 

TT out of position is a hand that doesn't want to play a big pot unless it hits a set.

The way to do that is to limp preflop, or limp/call a raise and play poker.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I might have played it like you did against certain players at certain times.

Will HE call YOUR raise if he has three queens?

Will HE call YOUR raise if he has a straight?

If you thought the answers to those questions were no, then you played it best possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he raises preflop with hands that make 3 queens or a straight. Weak passive making a preflop raise usually means AA-QQ, AK, sometimes JJ.

I have to admit, Tommy, some of your limit stories did come to mind as I was playing this hand.

Re: standard?
 

Gotta stick in a bet/raise somewhere after turn imo, I think folding to strength after you make your bet/raise is better than passively calling down.

Re: standard?
 

"I have to admit, Tommy, some of your limit stories did come to mind as I was playing this hand."

Full circle then. It was from playing tons of NL that that aspect of my limit game got that way.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
TT out of position is a hand that doesn't want to play a big pot unless it hits a set.

The way to do that is to limp preflop, or limp/call a raise and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logic is off. You lose value by not raising your 10s preflop - gap theory dictates that people WILL fold to your raise. The hand becomes MUCH easier to play if you make a preflop raise and then take a standard line. On the flop/turn, that's when you play poker. Limping and calling a raise is weak/passive. What do you do then on a favorable flop of undercards? Check/raise OOP? Lead and fold to a big raise? Action is much easier, you will win more pots, and most importantly, you will be able to make easier decisions when you are the aggressor.

As played, I really like your line. Such a weird hand - while I was reading it it actually did occur to me that it would be so much easier played if it were limit poker.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT out of position is a hand that doesn't want to play a big pot unless it hits a set.

The way to do that is to limp preflop, or limp/call a raise and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logic is off. You lose value by not raising your 10s preflop - gap theory dictates that people WILL fold to your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gap theory is best used for tourneys. In tourneys, you raise in order to take blinds and antes, and you are happy if everyone folds.

You raise in a ring game in order to get money in with position and a strong hand, or to make a move at a lot of dead money in a pot. TT is a decent hand but UTG is a crappy spot to play it in, so I'm limping.


[ QUOTE ]
The hand becomes MUCH easier to play if you make a preflop raise and then take a standard line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. I still have an underfull against someone who's playing very oddly.


[ QUOTE ]
On the flop/turn, that's when you play poker. Limping and calling a raise is weak/passive. What do you do then on a favorable flop of undercards? Check/raise OOP? Lead and fold to a big raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you will find about zero percent support on this forum for a limp/reraise of a tight/passive player with TT.

As for what happens when I limp/call and get an undercard flop, I sometimes lead, sometimes check/raise, sometimes check/call, sometimes check/fold. It depends on the opponent.

[ QUOTE ]
Action is much easier, you will win more pots, and most importantly, you will be able to make easier decisions when you are the aggressor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not with TT. That hand leads to a lot of hard decisions, and I just don't want to play a big pot with it out of position if I can help it.

[ QUOTE ]
As played, I really like your line. Such a weird hand - while I was reading it it actually did occur to me that it would be so much easier played if it were limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT out of position is a hand that doesn't want to play a big pot unless it hits a set.

The way to do that is to limp preflop, or limp/call a raise and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logic is off. You lose value by not raising your 10s preflop - gap theory dictates that people WILL fold to your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gap theory is best used for tourneys. In tourneys, you raise in order to take blinds and antes, and you are happy if everyone folds.

You raise in a ring game in order to get money in with position and a strong hand, or to make a move at a lot of dead money in a pot. TT is a decent hand but UTG is a crappy spot to play it in, so I'm limping.


[ QUOTE ]
The hand becomes MUCH easier to play if you make a preflop raise and then take a standard line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. I still have an underfull against someone who's playing very oddly.


[ QUOTE ]
On the flop/turn, that's when you play poker. Limping and calling a raise is weak/passive. What do you do then on a favorable flop of undercards? Check/raise OOP? Lead and fold to a big raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you will find about zero percent support on this forum for a limp/reraise of a tight/passive player with TT.

As for what happens when I limp/call and get an undercard flop, I sometimes lead, sometimes check/raise, sometimes check/call, sometimes check/fold. It depends on the opponent.

[ QUOTE ]
Action is much easier, you will win more pots, and most importantly, you will be able to make easier decisions when you are the aggressor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not with TT. That hand leads to a lot of hard decisions, and I just don't want to play a big pot with it out of position if I can help it.

[ QUOTE ]
As played, I really like your line. Such a weird hand - while I was reading it it actually did occur to me that it would be so much easier played if it were limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I may not agree fully, but point made.

Touche, my friend. Touche.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I might have played it like you did against certain players at certain times.

Will HE call YOUR raise if he has three queens?

Will HE call YOUR raise if he has a straight?

If you thought the answers to those questions were no, then you played it best possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree; if the answer is no he playede it fine... but; if he wont call a reraise with those hands you should be calling on the flop w/ any two. Most people call a very high % of the time w/ any Q on the river... let alone a straight (assuming a non-huge c/r). Rivr chk/call is gross; if your that nervous at least lead/call.

BTW negate all the above if for some reason you would call the river w/ 33 (i.e. you think he is on a complete bluff... but if he isnt he has the nuts). However i dont believe there is anyone whom i wouldnt raise this river against (and ive played lots of nits).

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
TT out of position is a hand that doesn't want to play a big pot unless it hits a set.

The way to do that is to limp preflop, or limp/call a raise and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe i've been playing 6max too much lately but i raise TT everytime from every position. if you won't raise TT there, when you DO raise utg, your opponents can narrow your range to, what, 5 hands tops?

btw, limp-calling preflop and flopping a set is not the way to win big pots. when a limp-caller gives a ton of action postflop it screams set.

Re: standard?
 

people dont like to fold overpairs

most people dont really have much trouble getting sets paid off if theyre up against top pair??

the only way you make more with your sets with a crazy lag style is if people are constantly making plays at you, and this would seem to subvert the advantage of a lag style, plus causing intense migraines

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
people dont like to fold overpairs

most people dont really have much trouble getting sets paid off if theyre up against top pair??

the only way you make more with your sets with a crazy lag style is if people are constantly making plays at you, and this would seem to subvert the advantage of a lag style, plus causing intense migraines

[/ QUOTE ]

I take more excedrin then any human

Re: standard?
 

I find another bet in their somewhere. I see you dont want to get up against the KQ a weak nut peddler might have, but you gotta play a bigger pot here. He's prob got slick or AQ anyway. Prob AQ trying to suck you in with his gay bet.

Anyway, I would either c/r turn or just bet out turn.

Re: standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT out of position is a hand that doesn't want to play a big pot unless it hits a set.

The way to do that is to limp preflop, or limp/call a raise and play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe i've been playing 6max too much lately but i raise TT everytime from every position. if you won't raise TT there, when you DO raise utg, your opponents can narrow your range to, what, 5 hands tops?

btw, limp-calling preflop and flopping a set is not the way to win big pots. when a limp-caller gives a ton of action postflop it screams set.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 6-max I'm firing with TT preflop pretty much all the time.

I do all right with the limp calling in the full ring.

Sometimes I raise hands like TT UTG. Sometimes I raise hands like 65s. Sometimes I raise AA. Sometimes I limp all of them from UTG. I limp more than I raise.

results
 

He had KK.

I think the play was to fold to the initial cutesy $10 bet.

Re: results
 

[ QUOTE ]
He had KK.

I think the play was to fold to the initial cutesy $10 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

One man's cutesy bet is another man's fraidy-cat bet. I'd rather die than fold to a minbet when my hand stands even the slightest chance of improving.