sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

table was playing normal for a 1/2 sixmax game on PS.

Each street has options. Who likes what? I have little reads at the moment.

PokerStars Game #2619821678: Omaha Hi/Lo Limit ($1/$2) - 2005/09/20 - 12:45:52 (ET)
Table 'Umbriel' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Nick_Foxx ($20 in chips)
Seat 2: cnew27 ($48 in chips)
Seat 3: poway phil ($37 in chips)
Seat 4: cracker_al ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: pdspubguy ($67.50 in chips)
Seat 6: djkpsu ($26.75 in chips)
poway phil: posts small blind $0.50
cracker_al: posts big blind $1
Nick_Foxx: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cnew27 [Jc Qs Qc As]
pdspubguy: calls $1
djkpsu: raises $1 to $2
Nick_Foxx: folds
cnew27: calls $2
poway phil: calls $1.50
cracker_al: calls $1
pdspubguy: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [Kd Js Td]
poway phil: checks
cracker_al: checks
pdspubguy: checks
djkpsu: bets $1
cnew27: calls $1
poway phil: calls $1
cracker_al: folds
pdspubguy: folds
*** TURN *** [Kd Js Td] [Kh]
poway phil: bets $2
djkpsu: folds
cnew27: calls $2
*** RIVER *** [Kd Js Td Kh] [8h]
poway phil: bets $2
cnew27: calls $2

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

Re: sixmax limit o8 hand for discussion
 

I fold PF because I'm a noob who doesn't play without a draw to the low. But even if you have a wider range of starting hands, is this a powerful enough hand to call a raise with?

And I raise the flop 10 times out of 10, especially with the diamond draw there.

But again, I suck at poker.

Re: sixmax limit o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
table was playing normal for a 1/2 sixmax game on PS.

Each street has options. Who likes what? I have little reads at the moment.

PokerStars Game #2619821678: Omaha Hi/Lo Limit ($1/$2) - 2005/09/20 - 12:45:52 (ET)
Table 'Umbriel' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Nick_Foxx ($20 in chips)
Seat 2: cnew27 ($48 in chips)
Seat 3: poway phil ($37 in chips)
Seat 4: cracker_al ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: pdspubguy ($67.50 in chips)
Seat 6: djkpsu ($26.75 in chips)
poway phil: posts small blind $0.50
cracker_al: posts big blind $1
Nick_Foxx: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cnew27 [Jc Qs Qc As]
pdspubguy: calls $1
djkpsu: raises $1 to $2
Nick_Foxx: folds
cnew27: calls $2
poway phil: calls $1.50
cracker_al: calls $1
pdspubguy: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [Kd Js Td]
poway phil: checks
cracker_al: checks
pdspubguy: checks
djkpsu: bets $1
cnew27: calls $1
poway phil: calls $1
cracker_al: folds
pdspubguy: folds
*** TURN *** [Kd Js Td] [Kh]
poway phil: bets $2
djkpsu: folds
cnew27: calls $2
*** RIVER *** [Kd Js Td Kh] [8h]
poway phil: bets $2
cnew27: calls $2

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Clayton.

I really like your line overall here. The first time I read through it I thought "Why isn't he raising with the nuts". But in all reality, I like the smoothcall with the flush draw out there. No way do you get one of the two to fold by raising the flop here (in your normal PS 1/2 6max game).

So in essence you'd just be raising with less than a 50% chance of winning the pot by the river. This is best case scenario here.

I'd wait until the turn to try and build the pot if you continue to hold the nuts. As played, I think calling down is fine, although since your villian just check/called on the flop and then led out on the turn I think you are beat.

Brad

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> pokenum -o8 jc qs qc as - ad 2d 8s 3c - kc jd 2c 3h -- kd js td
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Js Kd Td
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Qs Qc Jc 331 331 333 2 0 0 0 0.498
8s 3c Ad 2d 231 231 435 0 0 0 0 0.347
Kc 2c Jd 3h 102 102 562 2 0 0 0 0.155 </pre><hr />

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd still like a comment or two on postflop, if you please.

I called because there was a poster in addition to the SB and the BB. Plus I had position.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd still like a comment or two on postflop, if you please.

I called because there was a poster in addition to the SB and the BB. Plus I had position.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the guy was bluffing after the flop, you want him to keep bluffing. Just calling his bets was absolutely fine. You have little value raising the turn or river even though you *should* be ahead. What I mean by this is there are not many hands worse than yours that will call your raise, but there are enough better than yours who will. He could easily have A2 diamonds plus a king small and that's why he was betting. I'm not folding before a showdown.

Re: sixmax limit o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
So in essence you'd just be raising with less than a 50% chance of winning the pot by the river. This is best case scenario here.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he's the favorite now, and isn't the long term +EV move to make people pay for the chance to suckout on you?

Re: sixmax limit o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fold PF because I'm a noob who doesn't play without a draw to the low. But even if you have a wider range of starting hands, is this a powerful enough hand to call a raise with?

And I raise the flop 10 times out of 10, especially with the diamond draw there.

But again, I suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd never fold this PF in a 6-max O/8 game.

Brad

Re: sixmax limit o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fold PF because I'm a noob who doesn't play without a draw to the low.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is equivalent to saying you don't play without a chance to scoop.

This hand has a chance to scoop.

Re: sixmax limit o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So in essence you'd just be raising with less than a 50% chance of winning the pot by the river. This is best case scenario here.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he's the favorite now, and isn't the long term +EV move to make people pay for the chance to suckout on you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I really have no answer to this question whatsoever and it's really frustrating me.

Do we want to build the pot even though we'll only have the best hand on the river 40-50% of the time? Does the fact that there are 3 players still mean we should build the pot or no?

I find in Omaha I often lose more than I need to in multiway pot because I raise with the flop nuts which turns into about the 14th nut hand by the river.

Help?

Brad

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate why this is an autofold? Is this not a good hand for a high scoop? 3 broadway cards, a pair and doublesuited...

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that he flopped the nut straight and is asking for advice postflop. So therefore the discussion is necessary. He's not asking how to play perfect O/8, just how to play in the situation he got himself into.

Brad

Re: sixmax limit o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]

Do we want to build the pot even though we'll only have the best hand on the river 40-50% of the time? Does the fact that there are 3 players still mean we should build the pot or no?

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont need 50% equity against multiple oppnents, you just need to win more than the share of the money you are putting in.

You gain much more info by raising here. You have the best hand, you have one blocking card to a boat.

If the betting gets capped here and someone still leads out when the board pairs or the flush hits, then you fold.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't most any more until your testicles grow back.

The above is terrible advice in limit. Play this hand, just play it well post-flop.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

You cant let this one go, atleast for 6-max.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't post any more until your testicles grow back.

The above is terrible advice in limit. Play this hand, just play it well post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

God I screw up even my attempts at minimally humorous insults.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

To those advocating playing this hand, even given the PF raise. Would you suggest raising with it if not for the raise in front of him?

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

At a 6max table I would call the raise pre, not raise pre if no raise before, bet/raise the flop and fold to any action after the board pairs.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

All I can say is that Nick_Foxx fellow played perfectly

Mike

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

Clayton - I'd rather play this starting hand, AJQQd, to a single bet than a double bet - but I'd call the raise pre-flop.

But then when you flop the Broadway, I think you should pop it.

I cringed when I read that you just called the 2nd round bet. I think you have to do your best to take the pot here or make it expensive for your opponents to draw out on you.

And then if you did that, maybe the rest of the hand would have played differently. In other words, maybe poway phil would have folded to a double bet after the flop.

The way you played it, you're stuck chasing if the board either flushes or pairs. Forcing poway phil to confront a double bet instead of a single bet might not have mattered - but maybe it would have.

I think you have to seize the opportunity to put poway phil (and the others) to the test on the second betting round.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

If the players are bad 3-bet preflop. You are on the button. This hand is profitable.

This flop is awesome. People love to draw 6 max. Raise the flop. Try and figure out if you are up against a set.

Turn trust your read on the flop and either fold or call.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

If I am first in the pot I would raise, with limpers in front of me I would raise, with a limper and a raiser in front, I would most definately fold. O8 is about playing hands that are going to net you part to all of the pot.. not just half. Obviously you might get a scoop with a hand like this, but the odds are not good, and with a raiser in front of you who might have your hand dominated, I see no reason to play this.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
At a 6max table I would call the raise pre, not raise pre if no raise before

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't this violate the Gap Concept?

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At a 6max table I would call the raise pre, not raise pre if no raise before

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't this violate the Gap Concept?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a cash game not a tourney so the gap concept doesn't apply.

Re: sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion
 

Nope this is limit not PLO. Call the raise as he is telgraphing AA or A2, Riase post flop and call 4th and 5th street, you have the pot odds