Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $1 (All-In), MP2 folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

I hate how I played this hand. I can explain why I did what I did, but I don't think I'm right. What's your line on a hand like this?

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

What hands were you putting UTG on after the turn raise?

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

A flush. I was thinking a Ten or better Queen would have bet the flop.

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

He either played his 10 badly or you won. @_@

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

I would fold to the turn raise. The pot is tiny and I have TPNK on a paired flushed board, and the pot is protected by an all-in player.

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

hi-
i'd bet the flop. that may be wrong though.

well, based on the turn action this looks like the standard "i have trips pop the turn" line, or he has a flush. i like the bet-call.

on the river, i don't cap it. unless he's a known moron, he is not 3-betting a flush.

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

really?
if he has trip tens it is unlikely villian has a club so heros flush outs may be good?

though i guess it is thin otherwise.

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

[ QUOTE ]
really?
if he has trip tens it is unlikely villian has a club so heros flush outs may be good?

though i guess it is thin otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, they may be good, but I'm not sure it's worth fighting over. I don't think it's terrible but I don't know the odds offhand of you having the best club draw, coupled with whether you're up against trips (and a club will make a boat), coupled with the fact that you're just calling a club on the river...

At 6:1 it's close, but I'd probably fold.

Rob

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

yeah. true enough.

do you think betting the flop is chip spewing?

-t

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah. true enough.

do you think betting the flop is chip spewing?

-t

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. It's very likely I bet the flop.

Rob

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

[ QUOTE ]
hi-
i'd bet the flop. that may be wrong though.

well, based on the turn action this looks like the standard "i have trips pop the turn" line, or he has a flush. i like the bet-call.

on the river, i don't cap it. unless he's a known moron, he is not 3-betting a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the proper way to handle the "I have trips pop the turn" play I have been running into so much lately? I'm considering trying to start a discussion just on that in another thread.

Back to this hand, I have been second guessing myself on basically every play I made. Should I have bet the flop? Calling the turn raise or folding? And cap the river with the nut Boat when the Ten may very well be out there? I don't know.

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold to the turn raise. The pot is tiny and I have TPNK on a paired flushed board, and the pot is protected by an all-in player.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the pot wasn't protected by the all-in guy, would that change your play?

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold to the turn raise. The pot is tiny and I have TPNK on a paired flushed board, and the pot is protected by an all-in player.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the pot wasn't protected by the all-in guy, would that change your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really.

Rob

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

well. i don't think there is a "standard" way to handle it.

for example, in most cases if you flop trips you will be betting the flop. however this is not how the typical partyer thinks. they get "tricky" and think "aha, i will check raise the turn!" or some such. usually this is not the correct play, as in our loose passive games people will call on the flop and turn... but that doesn't really help us, because you are asking how to respond to the play...

so, i'd say it depends a lot on the texture of the board and your reads of your opponents. in this case the flop is TTQ. you have a queen, if you are basically behind any other queen (because of your kicker) and any T. now, queens and tens are both cards that get played frequently...so it more likely one is out there. and the third flush card comes on the turn, and villian wakes up. so i would be concerned. and as entity points out, the pot is pretty small...is it worth going to battle over, when you could be basically drawing dead?

this would not really be the case if the flop was 773 and you had the same Q3. (not that we especially love our threes and sevens here) but at least you can be a little more confident that people don't generally play sevens and/or threes.

however, i don't think anything can really "be done" about it. they will either have trips or they won't. most of the time, they won't. it just seems like they do when you are beaten. and, of course, sometimes it makes me feel better to think about the bets they are missing by not betting the flop.

if they are extremely passive players who don't bluff, then folding to turn raises is likely a good idea (especially when the pot is small)...but if they are likely to be bluffing, sometimes i just grit my teeth and continue (for better or for worse)...

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

Thanks, tilt. That was a great response.
Seems like I've been getting the old "I'll be crafty and pop the turn" play performed on me quite a bit, so I needed this advice. I do need to fold to the turn raise more than I have been, but that feels so weak to me.

As for the hand above, Villian did indeed have the Ten, and after the hand, he said, "I really thought you had me." Huh?

Re: Q3 on QTT board- help appreciated
 

no prob. there's even a small chance i'm not wrong [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
As for the hand above, Villian did indeed have the Ten, and after the hand, he said, "I really thought you had me." Huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

so he's either
a - the matador
b - going on your buddylist
c - both

(or he was just seeing monsters on the turn, thinking you had a flush)