How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

Lately, I have been going around and playing some other people's games around where I live. Now, these are your "I learned everything I know about poker from watching the WSOP" crowd. How do I tell them that starting with ~2500 (they like to have LOTS of chips, and play with stupid mid-denoms like 50 chips) and blinds starting at 25-50 and doubling every 20 minutes is a bad idea. Am I a dick for thinking that having to wager half of your starting stack every round less than 2 hours in is close to the dumbest thing ever? My thoughts are that I should probably just stop playing any of these games, as it just becomes one big crapshoot. If I do keep playing them, is there any way to actually beat them?

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

this is very close to how my friends and I play used to play -

Though DOUBLING is too much the game is beatable - you just have to adjust.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

No, you can't win.
Home-game-rapidly-increasing-blind-poker-with-donks is RIGGED!

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, you can't win.
Home-game-rapidly-increasing-blind-poker-with-donks is RIGGED!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the point to be made here is that you just gotta get the donks pegged, know when your ahead, focus more on tells, rather than playing ABC.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is very close to how my friends and I play used to play -

Though DOUBLING is too much the game is beatable - you just have to adjust.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use the Foxwoods structure with 2000 chips to start. It works great.

Scotty O

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

Yeah, that is fairly similar to what I go with. I am changing to T1200 (8 X 25, 5 X 100, 1 X 500) and blinds of 25-50, 50-100, 75-150, 100-200, 150-300, 200-400, 300-600, 400-800, 500-1K, 600-1.2k, 700-1.4k, 1k-2k and SB going up 1K each after, each level 20 min) The one I played in tonight that pissed me off so bad was 25-50, 50-100, 100-200, 200-400, 400-800, 800-1600, etc. I doubt that I will get too many of these fanbois to my game, as they don't like it when the game is actually requiring more skill to win than pure luck. Hopefully I will eventually be able to get a core group of players who know how poker is actually supposed to be played.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

thats still not a great structure, t1200 is nothing with 25-50 blinds

give 2500 and start at 25-25
or 1500 at 5-10

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

Yeah, your new blind structure is way worse that the original one. How do you think it will help? You think wagering half your stack after 2 hours is bad? What about wagerings your entire stack after...well, without getting any good cards, about 30 minutes into the match you're already all in. Your new structure you'd be lucky if the whole thing lasted 2 hours, depending on players it'd probably last an hour and a half.

JMB

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

Try this structure:
No Limit Structure & Ante
Level Small Blind Big Blind Ante
1 5 10
2 10 20
3 15 30
4 20 40
5 30 60
6 50 100
7 75 150
8 100 200
9 150 300
10 150 300 25
11 200 400 50
12 300 600 75
13 400 800 100
14 600 1,200 125
15 800 1,600 150
16 1,000 2,000 200
17 1,500 3,000 300
18 2,000 4,000 400
19 3,000 6,000 600
20 4,000 8,000 800
21 6,000 12,000 1,200
22 8,000 16,000 1,600
23 10,000 20,000 2,000
24 15,000 30,000 3,000
25 20,000 40,000 4,000
26 30,000 60,000 6,000
27 40,000 80,000 8,000
28 60,000 120,000 12,000
29 80,000 160,000 15,000
30 100,000 200,000 20,000
31 150,000 300,000 30,000

Increasing every 15 or 20 minutes. You can use the same structure without the antes. Start with T1,500.
Or, if they want to use a lot of chips, use the WSOP starting structure:

LEVEL ANTE BLINDS
1ST $25-$50
2ND $50-$100
3RD $100-$200
4TH $25 $100-$200
5TH $50 $150-$300
6th $50 $200-$400
7th $50 $250-$500
8th $75 $300-$600
REMOVE $25 CHIPS
9th $100 $400-$800
10th $100 $500-$1,000
11th $200 $600-$1,200
12th $200 $800-$1,600
13th $300 $1,000-$2,000
14th $400 $1,200-$2,400
REMOVE $100 CHIPS
15th $500 $1,500-$3,000
16th $500 $2,000-$4,000
17th $500 $2,500-$5,000
REMOVE $500 CHIPS
18th $1,000 $3,000-$6,000
19th $1,000 $4,000-$8,000
20th $1,000 $5,000-$10,000
21st $2,000 $6,000-$12,000
22nd $2,000 $8,000-$16,000
23rd $3,000 $10,000-$20,000
24th $4,000 $12,000-$24,000
REMOVE $1,000 CHIPS
25th $5,000 $15,000-$30,000
26th $5,000 $20,000-$40,000
27th $5,000 $25,000-$50,000
REMOVE $5,000 CHIPS
28th $10,000 $30,000-$60,000
29th $10,000 $40,000-$80,000
30th $10,000 $50,000-$100,000
31st $20,000 $60,000-$120,000
32nd $20,000 $80,000-$160,000
33rd $30,000 $100,000-$200,000
Start with T10,000.

Edit...sorry, the tables didn't come out very well, but I think you can figure it out. On the first table, the antes, when they kick in, are the far right column. On the second table, the antes, when they kick in, are in the first column.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

You could have just posted a link... maybe for next time

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

My home tourney games are designed to play two times in a four hour period. They start w/T2500 or T2000 with blinds starting at 25/50, increasing every 15 minutes by 50 up to 200, at which point they jump by 100, again at 15 minute interveals, until somebody wins. Occasionally, if it is late in the second tourney, blinds will increase every 10 minutes. The first game usually ends with the top two chopping the prize pool, so as to start playing again for all of those who are waiting. The second tourney is almost always played to a finish.

Even at this structure, T2000 or T2500 is not a deep stack and the blind increases force you to make moves much sooner than you'd like. But these games are beatable. The same people seem to win on a semi-regular basis.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

I played in one of these last nite. Its safe to say i will never be back. At one point we were down to 10 people and only 3 of us could post the big blind and we were only 1:45 minutes into the tourney !

I know the guy who ran it had to be pissed with all the comments about how bad his home game was.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

I relooked at my setup and I added a 25-25 level and another grand to the starting chips (T2200), which should work out fairly well. I'll give it a trial this next weekend, and if need be, I will modify it after this weekend.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that is fairly similar to what I go with. I am changing to T1200 (8 X 25, 5 X 100, 1 X 500) and blinds of 25-50, 50-100, 75-150, 100-200, 150-300, 200-400, 300-600, 400-800, 500-1K, 600-1.2k, 700-1.4k, 1k-2k and SB going up 1K each after, each level 20 min)

[/ QUOTE ]

worst. blind. structure. ever.

it's good how, in the second round of blinds, you have 10% of your stack in the BB

use AT LEAST 2500 (preferably 5000) starting chips and this is a good schedule

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

I've played a pub game where the buy-in is $25, we get T10,000 and the blinds start at 25/50 and double every 25 minutes a few times.

First time, I placed second (Close to $200), second time I split for 1st (Close to $300), 3rd time I got to the final table with a decent chip stack but lost out on a run of horrid cards compounded by extreme fatigue.

The structure is great, the players are horrible, but in some ways it's run abysmally and I don't like to play there very often.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lately, I have been going around and playing some other people's games around where I live. Now, these are your "I learned everything I know about poker from watching the WSOP" crowd. How do I tell them that starting with ~2500 (they like to have LOTS of chips, and play with stupid mid-denoms like 50 chips) and blinds starting at 25-50 and doubling every 20 minutes is a bad idea. Am I a dick for thinking that having to wager half of your starting stack every round less than 2 hours in is close to the dumbest thing ever? My thoughts are that I should probably just stop playing any of these games, as it just becomes one big crapshoot. If I do keep playing them, is there any way to actually beat them?

[/ QUOTE ]

To begin with you don't convince anyone of anything by calling them idiots and using words like retarded.

If you have a better tournament structure, hold your own home game and invite them to play with your structure. If they like it better they will keep using it.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

What link? I was copying and pasting from Word documents.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

Aren't the pertinent questions "what type of a game does one want?" and "about how long should it last?"

1st question includes: how many players? how should end game be played? Should the game favor aggression, tightness or luck? and perhaps a few more.

How many players is important because you need your average stack to maintain the desired number of big blinds as people get eliminated (this does not have to be stagnant.)

How should endgame be played is important if you have 2 tables or more (since a small step into a one table game is endgame). This is where it might be worth it to make the average number of big blinds per stack bigger (which favors aggresion) or the number of big blinds smaller (whcih favors tightness) or to make the game played the same.

Also, there are three normal ways that the blinds can go up: time intervals, player elimination, and hands played. A mixture of these could be used too.

Think about the desired results, then design the game structure around it. Much easier that way than just picking out some other person's structure and seeing if you happen to like it.

As for how to convince idiots their blind structure is retarted: Tell him that You don't like the blind structure's results, explain to said idiot how the blind structure dictates these reslults and if said idiot says he likes his retarded blind structure because it is fun and favors idiots, he may not be as dumb as you think he is.

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How do I tell them that starting with ~2500 (they like to have LOTS of chips, and play with stupid mid-denoms like 50 chips) and blinds starting at 25-50 and doubling every 20 minutes is a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that a bad idea? It's similar to the structure of a game that I crush, except that we start with T5000. Nobody there knows how to play after the flop which makes it insanely easy for the few of us who do.

Learn to play postflop and you'll love the deeper stacks

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

learn to deal with different circumstances. Treat it as short-stack training

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

find better games

Re: How do you convince idiots their blind structure is retarded?
 

The structure partly depends on the goal of the tournament. To be honest, I like playing the home game, but I don't want to play a baby dollar tournament against decent players for 10hrs when I could be winning bigger money tourneys online. How long do these tourneys take? How long would you like to play them?

And thinking there is no way to win a tournament just because of its structure is silly...unless the structure is everyone gets 10,000 chips and you get 75 chips, starting with 25/50 blinds.

I would like to play a long, deep-stacked home tourney...but not regularly on weekday nights.