Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

this came on the end of yet another sucky session. table was amazing with one good player and 7 donkeys.

Villain is good, probably better than me. We've talked shop a few times and he's given me a few hints how to change my strategy when deep.

MP is some old random tilter. has three pieces of phil hellmuth wear on and the trademark oakleys/backwards hat. he's on buyin #5 and just awful. would be better served getting dental work with the money.



Preflop:
UTG posts blind raise to $15. Villain (~1100) calls, three call to me (~1000) on CO with AA, I make it $50, blinds and blind raise fold, villain makes it 120, MP (~280) calls, I...?

this a good spot for the preflop call with aces? I think i made the wrong decision here due to being stuck and just playing bad that day. I think i play worse when the table is better and i just can't make anythin happen. gak.

My Actions:
<font color="white"> I pushed, UTG folds, MP calls. oops. Actual results in a minute.</font>

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

Seems pretty obvious to me about pushing, what were you thinking about that made you 2nd guess?

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

Because the result was that he ended up only getting action from a $280 stack instead of the $1k stack he really wanted.

I'd call and give Villain a chance to bet into you, then push on the flop assuming a pot-sized bet from villain.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

i feel inclined to push all-in here, but as a tight player, i like to save my chips in case "Sh*t" happens... so i'd probably just call it and see a flop or raise it substantially. if nothing shows up on the flop, wait and see what villain does, then i'll act accordingly from there.

but i am also curious y u second guess it? i'd push...

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

well, after a call the pot is $400 on the flop and i could probably get it in on an unders flop as a massive favorite. or at least get one PSB out of him if he holds something like AK. He took the time to limp/reraise in a pot that would very likely be raised, so i'd put him on at least TT-AA and AK.

I guess i just wanted the guy's whole stack, and i can't see him calling all-in here with anything but AA.

fim

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

Push, you'll have problems if you just call, like trying to start the dry side pot. Gunna be hard to start if your ahead, and easy to start if your behind.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

im sorry but i dont really agree with the advice of just calling because you are a tight player, if you are tight-cautious then pushing minimalizes your risk as you are sure you are getting in as a big favorite. if you are letting villian see this flop by just calling then you still have like 900 behind you against the best player at the table. just calling gives you the best chance of losing your stack.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

the shortie still has ~160 behind if i call, does that change anything?

fim

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

i didnt read the hand carefully, i did not realize the villian had limp re-raised, if you think he will bet pretty much auto-bet the flop then i think smooth calling might be most +EV with a little more variance, if you are on a limited bankroll i push but still smooth calling shouldnt be done because you are tight, cautious and dont wanna lose your stack but because you wanna play for your stack against the villian.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

you have a perfect situation, a player who is deep, better than you, but now he only has 2 outs.

I take the chance of letting him catch up with QQ or KK to see if I can stack him after the flop.



he limp reraised and wants to play a big pot, you have the hand to do it. if you push, he's getting away from KK awful easy.

if the flop is low and ugly, just do your best I am not folding JJ look and take his money.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

yeah i did not realize villian had limp re-raised that really narrows the range of his hands, i like smooth calling

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

no effing way im pushing PF. personally i hate putting in the third raise PF period (unless you arer playing against horrible players who call allin w/TT).

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

Pseudo-serious question:

[ QUOTE ]
just do your best I am not folding JJ look and take his money.

[/ QUOTE ]

any advice on this? say something like "i can't fold this hand without seeing a flop" and then call? quack quack?

fim

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

[ QUOTE ]
quack quack?

[/ QUOTE ]

2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

If I think villain is a really good player, I would take a glance at villain's stack then take a glance at MP's stack and nervously make it $320 straight.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

Excellent advice.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

I would call and get it all in on the flop. I think re-raising is nearly giving your hand away, and it allows KK to fold. It will be hard for the limp re-raiser to get off his KKs on a ragged flop.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

I just don't see a way to play the villian and shortstack off against each other. It's likely if you push you'll end up heads up against the shortstack, and if your having a good day, the villian will call and you'll beat him too.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

i would try to call quickly. That should be enough.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

do you mean make it 280 straight (the size of MP)?

I assume you want me to fake the isolation raise so he can re-isolate then, right?

or am i putting in what is essentially an "i'm scared of AA/KK, this minraise will flush it out" kind of bet.

i guess i just don't get why 320 instead of 280 or 360.

fim

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

results?

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

Yeah, I'm thinking of that kind of stuff. $280 just seems a little contrived. Maybe $300 straight is better. Or $350. I don't really plan out these things exactly, just go with what feels like it will have the right effect at the moment. In this case, that effect being him shoving on you w/ QQ or KK.

Re: Weird Preflop Situation, call or push? Commerce 3/5
 

ok, appreciated.

thanks

fim

results
 

as i suspected, i sucked on this hand. bad. everyone who took the time to read an understand the darn hand (joking guys) agreed how bad i played it. for me the trend continues: every time you think you're playing well, this kind of thing happens and you realize how bad you suck.

as previously stated, i got it in with MP's JJ.

turn J to put me in the red for the night. but you guessed that from the OP, right?

worst part was that the flop was all unders (i think 442) and villain had QQ. damn.

ah well, at the same time i realize how bad i play, i'm inspired at how much money i can make if i don't leave those $ on the table. back the the tables i guess.

fim