Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

From Washinton Post, Robin Wright Story

Pew Global Attitude project
Percentages represent:
(1) Confidence in Osamam Bin Laden
(2) Supports suicide bombings and other violent methods to further Islam

Jordan 60% 57% (up 14% from 2002)
Lebanon 2% 39% (down 34%)
Pakistan 51% 25% (down 8%)
Indonesia 37% 15% (down 12%)
Turkety 7% 13% (up 1%)
Morocco 25% 13% (down 27%)

Lets say 10,000 Pakistani's are allowed to immigrate to the USA. Based on these poll numbers, 5100 will be supporters of Osama Bin Laden and roughly 2525 will believe violence is an acceptable method to futher Islam. Do you really want these people to live next door to you? At least if someone from Romania moves next door you won't have to worry about then trying to blow you up. Also based on this poll it is no surprise that it was Pakistanis behind the London suicide bombing. It is also in Pakistan where the Wahabist have poored funds in their religious schools which teach intolerance and violence.

Can we agree that if you allow immigrants from a nation where 1 in 4 support violence against civilians that you are going to have a lot of "bad apples" come into your country? How can anyone look at this poll and not conclude that ON THE WHOLE, Muslims make poor citizens.

Also, all these claims that the USA is creating more terrorists with our foreign policy it seems like it is just the opposite based on the poll changes between 2002 and 2005.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I live one kilometre from Little Pakistan as it is named. According to your logic I have about 35,000 potential terrorists living close to me.
Their kebabs are worth it though [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Seriously, whether you want or not, Felix; the globe becomes smaller. People travel and migrate more. A mosque is coming to your neighbourhood too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I live one kilometre from Little Pakistan as it is named. According to your logic I have about 35,000 potential terrorists living close to me.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is not his logic, it is a poll result. Are you saying that the poll is inacurrate?

How do you know that you DON'T live next to 35K potential terrorists?

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, whether you want or not, Felix; the globe becomes smaller. People travel and migrate more. A mosque is coming to your neighbourhood too

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just silly. Do you think that synagogues will suddenly start springing up all over too? Or just mosques?

And when the mosques come, will the kabobs follow too?

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

Ok,
I will answer a bit more serious (was mocking his constant moslem-mocking).

There has been a couple of terrorists living here that has been catched (Palestine and Iranian), so I understand the possibility. First of all I believe that their opinions are softened by living here. But even if 35k would answer yes to the questions it is far away from them being terrorists.

Moslems are migrating, so it is just natural that mosques pop up in more places, synagoges a bit different since I have not heard of any big Jewish migration.

P.S. Our CIA claims that students coming from those countries constitute the biggest threat.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

He can not respond to the poll numbers because it shows EXACTLY why terrorism is rampant in the muslim world.

Even though most muslims may not be terrorists....Most muslims tolerate terrorism and a frightning number support terrorism. He jokes because he does not take terrorism seriously. This attitude is very common in western Europe. But his views and other western European views are moot. The USA will continue to proceed with the war on terror and Norwegians like him will continue to complain about American USA foreign policy.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

I take terrorism seriously. Western Europe has a history of terrorism lasting several decades. Western Europe also have experience trying to make different religions live together. I just don't take this moslem massive threat seriously. I think that Christians, Atheists and Moslems in many western European countries share many values, and that i.e. OBL and Bush is very perifer to those values. Thus to construct a conflict between the two religions in Europe is silly.

As an example, it was revealed that our intelligence agency had warned universities that some foreign students come here to aquire knowledge which can be used for weapons. The Pakistani student union (consisting of Pakistanis born in Oslo) reacts by reaching out to the intelligence agency to form a cooperation to combat this stating that all moderate Pakistanis will report all extremist elements.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
He can not respond to the poll numbers because it shows EXACTLY why terrorism is rampant in the muslim world.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does? Elaborate please. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

Bush missed his gretest opportunity after September 11.

Ban all Muslim immigration and travel to the United States. Deport all Muslim non-citizens. Permanant resident status? Not good enough.

It sounds extreme and discriminatory but what are we willing to sacrifice to spare the feelings of what are likely mostly good people?

Houston? Los Angeles?

A Russian friend of mine said it well. "All Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims".

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

You need better friends.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need better friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. Guess again.

And pull your head out of your ass.

Were you one of them?
 

I recall a poster or two claiming that Bush had done a remarkable job in making us safe by positing that there have been no attack in mainland US since 9/11. Were you one of them? Quite likely.

I, having learned at your (or their) feet, now posit that the muslim population in the US is not a threat to us as there has been no terrorist attack in the mainland US since 9/11. Ergo, no racial profiling, no mass deportation, no mass internment is needed.

Imports Exports, Inc.
 

What say those towelhead countries stop importing terror to the US and the US stops exporting terror to the towelhead countries ?

...Ooops. Too late for a deal.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A Russian friend of mine said it well. "All Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims".

[/ QUOTE ]

Timothy McVeigh? The Unabomber?

-ptmusic

All eyes to Mecca
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A Russian friend of mine said it well. "All Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims".

[/ QUOTE ]

Timothy McVeigh?
The Unabomber?

[/ QUOTE ]

The IRA ?

The Weather Underground ?

The Corsicans ?

The November 17 crowd ?

The Red Brigades ?

Israel Has the Right Idea: Build a Wall Around Your Country
 

The Pakistanis-Brits that carried out the attacked were 2nd generation Brits. This is more evidence (anecdotal) that muslims make poor citizens and do not assimulate as well as immigrants from other countries.

Israel is building a wall around their country to keep the hate-mongering muslims. I'd wish the USA would do the same thing. And the day that muslims decide to behave in a civilized manner is the day we can tear that wall down. But.....since the Wahabist cult controls mainstream Islam, I would expect that wall would need be in place for at least 300 years.

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

[ QUOTE ]
The IRA ?

The Weather Underground ?

The Corsicans ?

The November 17 crowd ?

The Red Brigades ?

[/ QUOTE ]

To name but a few, the statement wasn't worthy of a reply, it was just ignorant retarded [censored]. The far right use the fact that a couple of total nut-jobs blow some people up, to condemn a billion people as mindless savages who we should cleanse the earth of, if it wasn't so frightening it would be funny.

Mack

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

It does? Elaborate please.
********************************************
1. Osama Bin Laden is a terrorist who advocates violence against civilians as a legitimate tactic.
2. MOST muslim suicide bombing targets are civilians. It is the VERY RARE occurence when a suicide bombers attack a miltary target.
3. The poll numbers show large numbers of muslims express "confidence" in Osama Bin laden (OSL). This can be interpreted as approval of OBL. If you approve of a terrorist leader then the odds are you approve of his terrorists tactics.
4. The poll numbers show significant numbers of muslims approve of suicide bombings. Since 99%+ of suicide bombings target civilians, then it is logical to assume these same people approve of terrorism (aka conducting violence against civilians).

On a side note, if the suicide bombers ***ONLY*** targeted military targets....THEN....I would consider this to be a respectable and a valid tactic.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is just silly. Do you think that synagogues will suddenly start springing up all over too? Or just mosques?

And when the mosques come, will the kabobs follow too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well they all do in Europe where ever there is enough demand, its not unusual, you make it sound like something that could never happen.

Mack

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

a couple points [ QUOTE ]
most muslims tolerate terrorism and a frightening number support terrorism

[/ QUOTE ] after the recent bombing in london, the leaders of both hamas and hizballah issued harsh condemnation of the london bombing. now these are both fairly extreme groups, and they condemn the attacks in london. i think you are way off base to say that islam in general supports/tolerates terrorism. as for prohibiting muslims to move to the states, what are your policies on the millions of arab christians? ban them too? any idea how easy it is to infiltrate the u.s. from canada/mexico? it is crazy to think that you can prevent terrorism by turning the U.S. into a police state.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
2. MOST muslim suicide bombing targets are civilians. It is the VERY RARE occurence when a suicide bombers attack a miltary target.


[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly not true in Iraq.

[ QUOTE ]
4. The poll numbers show significant numbers of muslims approve of suicide bombings. Since 99%+ of suicide bombings target civilians, then it is logical to assume these same people approve of terrorism (aka conducting violence against civilians).


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't Islam supposed to be a religion against violence, all I ever hear from Muslim leaders are that the people who carry out these attacks are not Muslims, they only think they are.

Mack

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

The accurate point, which Felix made a little imprecisely, is that most terrorist attacks against the West are committed by Muslims.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't Islam supposed to be a religion against violence, all I ever hear from Muslim leaders are that the people who carry out these attacks are not Muslims, they only think they are.


[/ QUOTE ]

Islam is clearly not against violence. If you read the Koran you will see this is so.

Mohammed was clearly not against violence, either. He personally led over a dozen military campaigns of conquest during his lifetime.

Many imams call for violence. I don't know which Muslim leaders you are referring to, unless you are referring to the publicity after a major terrorist incident, when a few of them will come out and publicly say, "Oh, Islam is AGAINST terrorism". Well...that's NOT what many of the preach in their regular weekly sermons (see www.MEMRI.org for verbatim transcripts of many of these sermons), and it's not what the Koran says, either.

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

[ QUOTE ]
The accurate point, which Felix made a little imprecisely, is that most terrorist attacks against the West are committed by Muslims.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its true, I agree.

Mack

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

I see you.

I thought you were going to answer WHY? Why usually means reasons.

For a moment I thought you were beginning to consider the difficult questions and not just spout off. My mistake. Carry on.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Islam is clearly not against violence. If you read the Koran you will see this is so.

Mohammed was clearly not against violence, either. He personally led over a dozen military campaigns of conquest during his lifetime.

Many imams call for violence. I don't know which Muslim leaders you are referring to, unless you are referring to the publicity after a major terrorist incident, when a few of them will come out and publicly say, "Oh, Islam is AGAINST terrorism". Well...that's NOT what many of the preach in their regular weekly sermons (see www.MEMRI.org for verbatim transcripts of many of these sermons), and it's not what the Koran says, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few preach hatred, they do it openly, most of them seem to be against violence, they certainly don't make these speeches in public places, like Abu Hamza for example.

All balanced sources, BBC and government say Islam is a religion of peace, not just Muslim leaders, I know not to take everything you hear seriously, but you have to get your information from somewhere, lets not get paranoid (everyones lying to us).

Regards Mack

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

I just watched Blair on TV clearly stating that the problem is not Islam and that Islam does not condone this behaviour.

I will take his word (and my extensive reading) over your narrow viewpoint.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

Is the U.S. presence in Iraq bs? Yes.

Have Muslim countries been royally screwed over by the U.S, Israel and company? No question about it.

My quarrel with Islam is not rooted in "hatred for brown people" or any other such nonesense. However, we have a cultural war on our hands. How anyone in England, France or the Netherlands (where the culture is slowly being eroded by Islam) can defend this intolerant, pathetic excuse for a religion is beyond me. Especially folks in the United Kingdom in light of what happened last week.

Concede to the demands of Islam (some not unreasonable- to be sure) and the demands become greater and greater- furthering their goal of oppressing the world with their beliefs and culture.

I know the ultra-liberals will never be convinced of the fact that I and my ilk really are not entirely right wing racist wackos. That is unfortunate because the chasm between our mutual thinking will continue to stunt our progress.

What really blows my mind is the left wing Christian bashers who turn around and defend Islam- a far more intolerant religion that advocates violence that cannot even begin to compare to a few "Christian" nut cases.

All the best to my British brothers after the recent attack. Disagree as we may, I certainly would not wish death or dismemberment on those whose opinions differ from mine.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just watched Blair on TV clearly stating that the problem is not Islam and that Islam does not condone this behaviour.

I will take his word (and my extensive reading) over your narrow viewpoint.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll try and keep an open mind when Atlantic City residents are dying of radiation poisoning.

BTW, sorry if I have come off as rude but this topic inflames passions in me greater than that all-natual busty babe in my avatar.

I'm going back to the poker discussion that I came to this site for in the first place. Arguing about this is ridiculous. Nobody is going to persuade anyone else to change their thinking.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is going to persuade anyone else to change their thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the objective of the intellectually challenged.

My objective is to refine my own understanding of the world. Writing helps me clarify. Refuting theories motivates me to write.

Plus, this is the only place where I (in real life very mild mannered, quiet person) gets to occaisonally call people morons or idiots. I dont think I have ever done that to anyone in real life. Kind of fun!

So, if you like stick around. You never know you might learn something.

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

[ QUOTE ]
The accurate point, which Felix made a little imprecisely, is that most terrorist attacks against the West are committed by Muslims.

[/ QUOTE ]

Naturally, I assumed with two such knowledgable posters as yourself this must be true. So I decided to research a little. I searched for "Terrorism in the U.S.". The very first hit was a webpage that I think we can acknowledge has no partisan bias.

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/terr...01.htm#page_19

"The FBI recorded eight terrorist incidents and one terrorist prevention in the United States and its territories in 2000. Each of the eight terrorist incidents was perpetrated by domestic terrorists. Likewise, the terrorist plot prevented by law enforcement was being planned by a domestic terrorist. No acts of international terrorism were carried out in the United States in 2000.

All of the terrorist incidents that occurred in the United States during calendar year 2000 were carried out by special interest terrorists, specifically animal rights and environmental extremists.
"


"2001 IN REVIEW

The FBI recorded 14 terrorist incidents and two terrorist preventions in the United States and its territories in 2001. Twelve of the 14 recorded incidents were carried out by domestic terrorists. One incident, the terrorist attack of September 11, was perpetrated by international terrorists. At this time, the other incident, an unsolved series of anthrax-tainted letters sent through the U.S. postal system, cannot yet be characterized as either domestic or international in nature. The two terrorist plots prevented by law enforcement in 2001 were being planned by domestic extremists.

Eight of the terrorist incidents that occurred in the United States in 2001 have been attributed to the Earth Liberation Front (ELF).
"


I dunno if the damn towelheads have taken to rescuing animals but these dudes sound white to me. Weird eh?

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

ACPlayer, you should do your own research then form a view, rather than taking anyone's viewpoint.

You have probably read ABOUT Islam from some Western, slanted sources.

May I suggest instead that you read Islam itself (the Koran), and the views and interpretations of *Muslim* Islamic scholars, rather than Western scholars, to form a more accurate view of what Islam REALLY says.

After all, who probably knows more about Islam: An Occidental scholar--or an Imam who has lived, breathed and studied Islam his entire life?

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

spoohunter, you misread my words and therefore researched the wrong thing.

I said "terrorism against the West" not "terrorism inside the United States."

Now do your research again, if you wish, and get back to me.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

I have likely read a broader spectrum.

But you still miss my point. You need to understand why lay Muslims are willing to do the bidding of the extremists and commit the sin of suicide. The reason for that is similar to the reasons of the IRA, the Tamil Tigers, The ANC terrorist, etc, etc. Your focus on the extremist interpretation is leading your analysis astray.

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

So Terrorists acts committed in the united states do not fall under your category of terrorism against the west?

Because I thought we were talking about how muslims are coming over to the U.S. and committing all these acts of terrorism. I guess I'm just confused. We're not talking about how dangerous towelheads are. Are we?


Edited in :

Note 9/11 is included in these "terrorists incidents" which I believe would be lablled as a terrorist act against the west.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But you still miss my point. You need to understand why lay Muslims are willing to do the bidding of the extremists and commit the sin of suicide. The reason for that is similar to the reasons of the IRA, the Tamil Tigers, The ANC terrorist, etc, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the history of Islam is of warring against and terrorizing or subjugating non-Muslims (with the popular phenomenon of suicide bombing being a more recent development). Mohammed himself even led Muslims into many wars of conquest.

[ QUOTE ]
Your focus on the extremist interpretation is leading your analysis astray.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that the extremist interpretation mirrors the literal interpretation very closely.

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

I was referring to terrorism against the West: which includes Europe, England, Australia, U.S. and U.S. interests overseas, etc.

Sorry for any confusion.

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

Then clearly my evidence applies. Not as a conclusive answer, but as a first step in solving the problem of whether or not you are just randomly making stuff up.

You say towelheads commit all sorts of heinous acts and hence shouldn't be allowed to immigrate.

I say you're lying.

Re: All eyes to Mecca
 

[ QUOTE ]
Then clearly my evidence applies. Not as a conclusive answer, but as a first step in solving the problem of whether or not you are just randomly making stuff up.

You say towelheads commit all sorts of heinous acts and hence shouldn't be allowed to immigrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not making stuff up, and moreover,m I DON'T say that.

[ QUOTE ]
I say you're lying.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have managed to misquote me twice now so who's lying?

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But the history of Islam is of warring against and terrorizing or subjugating non-Muslims

[/ QUOTE ]

And from this you conclude that Islam is an evil religion. The History of the World is of warring against and terrorizing or subjugating others. In the names of many many religions.

So, yes Islam is evil and should be banned by rational people and SO SHOULD ALL OTHER RELIGIONS AS THEY ARE EQUALLY EVIL AND CAUSE MUCH ANGUISH PAIN AND INTOLERANCE.

Re: Muslim Immigrants: Importing Terrorists?
 

Most of the posters here don't seem to be responding to the OP's question about whether America should allow muslims to immigrate. Since non-americans do not have the right to become americans, this is not a rights question. It is a political question to be decided by americans. And I agree with Felix that the answer is that we have every reason not to allow such immigrants, or students for that matter, at least for a period of like 20 years. We have no need for them here, as asian immigrants provide all we need in the way of educated technical workers, and mexicans provide all we need in the way of any other type of workers. Since the oil rich arab countries have more than adequate resources, let them import muslim immigrants and students. But of course they won't do that since when they could be providing meaningful financial aid to palestinians to improve their economic well-being, they instead choose just to compensate families of homicide bombers who murder israelis.