Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

Ive been playing some Sit and Go Razz online. Where Ive been doing well I think I might be playing too tight pre-flop. I mostly have been limiting myself to three wheel cards and hands with a solid chance of stealing the antes. What are some other classes of opening hands that should I be looking to play? Any help much appreciated.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

I know very little about Razz, but 3 wheel cards sounds too tight. 3 cards to a 6 or 7 are probably okay too, maybe a smooth 8 as well...something like A28 or A38.

Consider the other upcards...are the cards you need out? Are the cards that will pair you out?

An important consideration is your board. If you are playing a 3 card 7 or 8, it is much better to have it in the hole.

You may get more extensive advice in Stud section. Also, Sklansky on Poker has a great section on Razz.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

you are about 33 to 1 to get dealt 3 unpaired wheel cards...in other words, thats way too tight... in razz i'd play any 3 unpaired babies 8 or below... you will get a hand such as this about 16% of the time

mike

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

I don't play this game, but I think that playing any three-card Eight regardless of what's out and how much it costs to play is way too loose. A three-card Seven is going to be playable most of the time, though. In a lot of spots, I'd rather have A29 than 378, especially if the Nine were in the hole.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ive been playing some Sit and Go Razz online. Where Ive been doing well I think I might be playing too tight pre-flop. I mostly have been limiting myself to three wheel cards and hands with a solid chance of stealing the antes. What are some other classes of opening hands that should I be looking to play? Any help much appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

In early position or in raised pots, you want a three-card seven or better. If there's a high ante and your raise is likely to get it heads-up, you can play three-card eights. If the pot is raised and reraised by wheel cards, you need a three-card six to play. If you have a good chance to steal, you can play a hand with a hidden eight or nine or ten if your upcard and other downcard are strong. Heads-up hands run close in value - be careful with rough draws in multiway pots.

Which online sites have razz
 

Which online sites has razz?

Thanks,
Steve

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

Playing three card sevens or better has you playing about 10% of all hands.

If your upcard is the lowest upcard and your holecards are lower than it then you can play this too.

Read Sklansky On Poker.

Re: Which online sites have razz
 

Full Tilt and Planet Poker do... I play on FT but the games dont get off all that often.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

What hands do you guys like from the bring in? Say the bet is completed and your holding A2K, Im guessing most people would call this, but how about hands like 24K or 45K?

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

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you are about 33 to 1 to get dealt 3 unpaired wheel cards.

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Mike - Not a big deal, but I think 34.5 to 1 against getting dealt three unpaired wheel cards is correct.

Here's my math:
52*51*50/(20*16*12) = 34.5.
(Both the numerator and denominator of 52*51*50/(20*16*12) are actually divided by six, but the sixes cancel).

Doesn't change your conclusion. Waiting for three wheel cards is too tight.

Here's waiting for three low cards, six or better:
52*51*50/(24*20*16) = 17.2.

Here's waiting for three low cards, seven or better:
52*51*50/(28*24*20) = 9.9.

I think you'll be playing about one hand out of ten if you wait for three low cards, seven or better. That seems reasonable.

Trouble is, the person with the lowest card showing has to make a forced "bring-in" bet. And the forced "being-in" bet complicates things.

In a ten handed game, you figure to have the lowest card showing one time out of ten.

Assuming you have the low card showing, and assuming it is a seven or lower, and not considering the cards your opponents have showing, you figure to only have two more low cards, seven or better, in the hole only about one hand in five.
Here's the math:
51*50/(24*20) = 5.3.

So you're bringing it in one time out of ten, but of these times you bring it in, assuming you want to stick to your standard of seven or better, you'll only want to continue one hand in five. The other four times out of five when you bring it in, you won't like your hand much.

Geez, thinking a bit ahead of what I'm typing, this game sounds like a bluffers paradise!

But enough! Omaha-8 is my game. I'll put this in my razz file and if I ever have to play razz, maybe I'll finish it. Better yet, I'll re-read Sklansky on razz (found in the book <font color="white">_</font>Sklansky on poker). That held me in very good stead the last time I had to play razz (as part of a HORSE tournament).

Buzz

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

Isn't it usually the highest upcard showing that is the bring in? Or is the variant I play an abberation?

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

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Isn't it usually the highest upcard showing that is the bring in? Or is the variant I play an abberation?

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In limit razz, the HIGHEST upcard brings it in.

In pot-limit razz, sometimes people play that the lowest upcard is the bring-in. If the high card brings it in, then you tend to get a lot of action on third and fourth street, massively increasing the variance and the luck factor. By having the low card bring it in, it will usually keep the pot small on the early streets, and hands will usually be more defined before any real money goes in.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

hey buzz, the high card brings it in...

i actually get 33.5 to 1 on the being dealt 3 cards to a wheel but we're splitting hairs

20/52*16/51*12/50=2.9%

Re: Which online sites have razz
 

Full Tilt has razz SNGs at the $5,$10,and $20 levels. You'll have a long wait for anything above the $5. I don't believe FT has razz ring games yet and I am unsure if they plan on adding them.

Planet Poker has razz ring games and occasional razz MTTs. The MTTs have either a $5 or $10 buy-in and they usually have 3 or 4 per week. Typically draws only 10-30 players. I have literally NEVER seen a razz cash game ever running at Planet but the rooms are there if you can find the players. I noticed the razz ring games were absent on "Planet 2" (i.e. the Planet upgrade currently in beta testing). This might mean that Planet is dropping razz once they complete the switchover to the new software.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

TRBNGR - Yikes. What was I thinking? I stand corrected. Thank you.

Buzz

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

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hey buzz, the high card brings it in...

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Mike - Of course it does. Thanks for the correction.

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i actually get 33.5 to 1 on the being dealt 3 cards to a wheel but we're splitting hairs

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You're right about that too. The rest of my post is (slightly) in error too. I better not play any poker today.

Thanks for the warning.

Buzz

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

Generally I'll play any three cards seven or lower although not always 76x. Occasionally I'll play three low cards with an eight if the eight is in the hole and the other two cards are very good. You must pay attention to how live are the low cards you want to catch.

If people start jamming on third or fourth street I dump the marginal hands.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

Buzz,

In razz, the high card brings it in, as I recall.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

[ QUOTE ]
In razz, the high card brings it in, as I recall.

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Andy - Indeed it does. My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

Buzz

Re: Which online sites have razz
 

I've found Full Tilt to be pretty good with the Razz sit-n-go's. Just sign up and leave it there for a while, it might take a half hour but there's alot of people who don't understand the game at all. I've won 2 razz sng's on there and came in 2nd once recently.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

"Say the bet is completed and your holding A2K, Im guessing most people would call this"

This should be mucked (in the large majority of cases), my mistake.

Re: Razz Starting Hand Requirements
 

i've played in a few of the razz free money games on full tilt. Tilt accurately describes it. By the first orbit it was down to 4. Took awhile after that. I won one huge pot with a pair of 2's. lol. I finished 1st and 3rd in my last 2.

I enjoy this game and look forward to learning it more.