stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

Sit in the BB first hand, get the 2 Black Aces.

raised in mp, someone i have never seen.

i three bet. he calls.

flop K 5 3 rainbow.

i lead, get raised, three bet, he caps, i call.

turn J (no suits), i lead, he raises, i call (?)

river 5, i lead, he raises, i call (?)

the reason for my question this line is that it has seemed to come up quite a bit lately.

i have a big hand, most likely the best hand, i have no problems with aggression, but............

it seems as though i may be being a touch to safe in spots and not extracting the maximum.

all thoughts and comments appreciated, i know this is a fine line.

cheers. J.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

Why do you not 3-bet the turn, yet donkbet the river? This seems inconsistent to me.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you not 3-bet the turn, yet donkbet the river? This seems inconsistent to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

He just outdrew KJ. Furthermore this is the only way of guaranteeing

i) Getting to showdown
ii) Putting at least 3 bets in on turn and river.
iii) Putting at most 4 bets in on turn and river.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

i now beat KJ.

that was one of the reasons, but not the only one.

i don't think i played this hand well, and yes i should have 3 bet the turn, no argument there.

i didn't think that it was a donkbet on the river though, this is limit and i was pissed about not 3 betting the turn and didn't want to compound the error by having him check behind me on the river.

thoughts?

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

you now beat KJ, 3 betting the turn is pretty big, then he 3 bets, you call, and c/r the river. i dont like bet/3 betting the river because if he caps, then how you feeling? you fail to say how many ppl start the hand, if is a full table, or short handed? i dont see a reason to see him as having anything else, but ive seen ppl call a 3 bet with JJ, and play as if hes spiked that set on the turn... i like a c/r the river and a 3 bet the turn...

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

full table.

yes i agree with your line.

he would have capped the turn, still try and c/r the river?

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

[ QUOTE ]
full table.

yes i agree with your line.

he would have capped the turn, still try and c/r the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
jesus, christ man, threebetting the turn is dumb and calling a cap is prob wrong, and checkraising the river... WTF?
preflop flop u said I HAVE POCKET ACES, he keeps raising... checkraising the river would be totally psychotic... how could that be right?
i like the way you played every street, but if anything u gave too much action... a good player would never ever raise the river with something u beat, so so obvious what u have and no1 folds. because the pot is big and u dont know him i agree with the crying call, but i cant see how u want to put in more action.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

ok, you got me, i could never check raise the river.

when i agree "with his line" i meant 3 betting the turn.

i don't mind my river bet, but you are correct i am not sure if 3 betting there could ever be right, it just sorta turned out this guy wasn't much of a player.

you are outlining the small, but significant problem i have been running into.....
not quite squeezing out enough when i have the best of it all of the time and then feeling bad later.

i think i get 4 total big bets, on the turn and river, in this hand almost no matter how i play it, but i am trying to figure a better line overall when similar situations occur.

thanks for your input. J.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

I can't believe all this "three-bet the turn" stuff. Are you guys really that angry at your money? You three-bet pre-flop, bet/raise/call a cap on a nearly drawless King-high flop, lead into the capper on a Jack turn and get raised and now you want to give more action to a completely unknown player? I am definitely not three-betting this turn without a good reason, and "I have Aces" doesn't qualify in my opinion.

SpaceAce

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

maybe i played it better than i thought in the first place, but i am not convinced yet...............J.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

I agree w/ flawless here. Lately I've dumped hella chips into pots like this in similar spots and I'm almost always behind. Nothing wrong with a check/call on the river. You could even do a check/call on the turn. Hard to fold b/c he's an unknown.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sit in the BB first hand, get the 2 Black Aces.

raised in mp, someone i have never seen.

i three bet. he calls.

flop K 5 3 rainbow.

i lead, get raised, three bet, he caps, i call.

turn J (no suits), i lead, he raises, i call (?)

river 5, i lead, he raises, i call (?)

the reason for my question this line is that it has seemed to come up quite a bit lately.

i have a big hand, most likely the best hand, i have no problems with aggression, but............

it seems as though i may be being a touch to safe in spots and not extracting the maximum.

all thoughts and comments appreciated, i know this is a fine line.

cheers. J.

[/ QUOTE ]

your line seems fine to me. IMO 3betting the turn would be spewing. sure looks like he had 55.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

you played it just fine and gave as much action as can be tolerated. maybe even a check call on the river was right depending on whether you though he might have bet a lone king.
no way were you to put another bet in on the turn. you cant play cards and look back after knowing what they had and find a way to have won more or lost less. you can only play on your read and probable hands he may have and yours wasnt looking so strong at the turn or river.
dont drink my wine up if your stash runs low.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

won't be results oriented, just trying to come up with the right line regardless of what they "had", not doing the hindsight is 20/20 thing, i hope!!

and for the wine stash, it is plentiful and i haven't been drinking any at all, how sad is that?

cheers. J.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

Here is a hand where I used the same line, although the raiser was someone who was fairly aggressive.
Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $20.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (14 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ah As (one pair, aces).
Button has Qc 8h (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 21.50 BB. </font>

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

After capping the flop and raising the turn he's a lock to bet the river, so I'd just call the raise and check/call the river. This looks like one of those times where the 1 in the 4:1 odds hit and AA was cracked.

Re: stars 30/60, i am too safe = sorry?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you not 3-bet the turn, yet donkbet the river? This seems inconsistent to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
He just outdrew KJ. Furthermore this is the only way of guaranteeing

i) Getting to showdown
ii) Putting at least 3 bets in on turn and river.
iii) Putting at most 4 bets in on turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
you now beat KJ, 3 betting the turn is pretty big, then he 3 bets, you call, and c/r the river. i dont like bet/3 betting the river because if he caps, then how you feeling? you fail to say how many ppl start the hand, if is a full table, or short handed? i dont see a reason to see him as having anything else, but ive seen ppl call a 3 bet with JJ, and play as if hes spiked that set on the turn... i like a c/r the river and a 3 bet the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

for a minute there i thought the game leaped to another level w/out me noticing. 3 bet the turn! c/r the river! holy crap. lol