anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

i just read a post that said, "where can i find written theory on when it's correct to bluff-raise the river?"

am i a big minority in thinking this question is a little nuts?

jesus, i always thought the game was basically obvious. i've never read a poker book. i mean the answer to when should I bluff?" is : you do what you gotta do! do you think the guy will fold? yes or no.

is there a whole other world of rote instructions the majority of poker players follow?

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

Are you serious?

Has somebody rote something?

Just in case you not being sarcastic, read my post "ATo is making me sick"

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

Some people learn better (and more cost efficiently) by reading how others would deal with a certain situation. I too started poker about 8 years ago without much knowledge of written theory...

However, I have found that reading books (even the bad ones) help fill small holes in my game.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

no, do NOT read any books. Books are worthless.

But I do have a question....where do you play?

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Has somebody rote something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus CHRIST!!!!!!!

He MEANT do people follow a ROTE set of rules (i.e. a default
list which implies blindly adhering to without thought)

People will learn from different sources and have different
results...but knowing tough words, like four letters long, like
rote are rare.

-ZEN

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Has somebody rote something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus CHRIST!!!!!!!

He MEANT do people follow a ROTE set of rules (i.e. a default
list which implies blindly adhering to without thought)

People will learn from different sources and have different
results...but knowing tough words, like four letters long, like
rote are rare.

-ZEN

[/ QUOTE ]

Dag nabbit!.... So wez the unlearnded in this here sitiation?

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus CHRIST!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
A pun is the lowest form of humor, and it wasn’t much of a joke – but lighten up. Sheesh.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i just read a post that said, "where can i find written theory on when it's correct to bluff-raise the river?"

am i a big minority in thinking this question is a little nuts?

jesus, i always thought the game was basically obvious. i've never read a poker book. i mean the answer to when should I bluff?" is : you do what you gotta do! do you think the guy will fold? yes or no.

is there a whole other world of rote instructions the majority of poker players follow?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the best players of today, Doyle Brunson and Mr. David S. himself were making big money at the poker tables before any such literature was out.

The thing nowadays is the game has changed so much that if you are up agianst opponents who have "inside" information about the game that you might not be aware of you might be getting the worst of it.

The poker books help bring people up to a more level standard of playing, you may think of it loosely as a "rule" book, but I think of it more as a book of "tricks", the best way to defend agianst a trick is to understand how the trick works.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i mean the answer to when should I bluff?" is : you do what you gotta do! do you think the guy will fold? yes or no.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's not the answer (and your follow-up question isn't correct either).

But if you read Theory of Poker, you may figure out the correct question and answer...

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

The reason some of us read books and study the game is because we understand that the game is more complicated than "will he fold?" The question is "will he fold often enough to make this bet profitable?" which is a vastly different question. The first question requires some combination of being a mind reader or a home game champion who is a pompous ass. The second requires knowledge of game theory, pot odds, and bluffing frequency. So whatever your poison is, run with it.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The reason some of us read books and study the game is because we believe that the game is more complicated than "will he fold?" The question is "will he fold often enough to make this bet profitable?" which is a vastly different question. The first question requires some combination of being a mind reader or a home game champion who is a pompous ass. The second requires knowledge of game theory, pot odds, and bluffing frequency. So whatever your poison is, run with it.

[/ QUOTE ] FYP

Its two different schools of thought really. You can break the game of poker down into simply: What do I have? Does this beat my opponent? If not, if I bet, will he fold? While this may not be the most complete, or intellectual approach to the game, it none the less has merit as a "Poker Theory". And I'm sure with enough practice this simplitistic, or more "feeler" approach could be profitable. Its how most people start out anaylzing the game (once they get beyond the what do I have stage).

A player like Jennifer Harman does not use in depth concepts such as bluffing frequency. She has admitted herself that sometimes she bets merely because she knew the other player would fold.

Is the game more complicated than "will my opponent fold?" I guess that depends on your point of view. But, that is what makes poker so great. On the surface the game is so simple but it can be so complicated. I think the game is as simple or complex as you make it.

Although, I still don't know how anyone can be successful at poker without reading some kind of book on it, or being taught certain skills by someon else who is skilled.

Good discussion, has me thinking.

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]RIDGE [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

I agree 100% withm jeff here. I didnt know anything about bluffing until I read the theory of poker and the correct way to bluff, especially in limit poker.

I dont want to be rude, but you're way off here, bro.

Pick up a copy, I dont wanna explain it here, and you have to read it more than once anyways to understand optimal bluffing frequency.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can break the game of poker down into simply: What do I have? Does this beat my opponent? If not, if I bet, will he fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty awesome way to think about poker. You left out an important part though. When deciding to call a bet with a gutshot or a flush draw, I just ask myself, will I hit it?

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can break the game of poker down into simply: What do I have? Does this beat my opponent? If not, if I bet, will he fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty awesome way to think about poker. You left out an important part though. When deciding to call a bet with a gutshot or a flush draw, I just ask myself, will I hit it?

[/ QUOTE ]

But if you break his question of "If I bet will he fold" down to its ultimate level it encompasses all the things his opponant will have to decide. Pot odds, hitting that gutshot, etc. His bluff must be at the right level and he must sell it well enough that he isn't called. I think that reading books on poker and tells would make him a better overall player and able to make this decision correctly enough times to pay off.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

xenophobia.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jesus CHRIST!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
A pun is the lowest form of humor, and it wasn’t much of a joke – but lighten up. Sheesh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought a guy getting hit in the nuts with a football is the lowest form of humor.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jesus CHRIST!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
A pun is the lowest form of humor, and it wasn’t much of a joke – but lighten up. Sheesh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought a guy getting hit in the nuts with a football is the lowest form of humor.

[/ QUOTE ]

A guy getting hit in the nuts is the lowest form of humor for people who don't read. A pun is the lowest form of humor for those who do so see it all comes back to OP's question. Do you see why?

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some of the best players of today, Doyle Brunson and Mr. David S. himself were making big money at the poker tables before any such literature was out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't thinl God ever read The Bible. But people keep telling me it's a Good Book. I'd much rather learn from other people's donks than make them myself.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious?

Has somebody rote something?


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. The poker boom is already paying great dividends for our society!

Keep on dropping out of college, you .5/1 3-tablers!

I suggest dictionary.com before opening your ignorant mouth.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious?

Has somebody rote something?


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. The poker boom is already paying great dividends for our society!

Keep on dropping out of college, you .5/1 3-tablers!

I suggest dictionary.com before opening your ignorant mouth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Touché.

Your a prick.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

I have read a few chapters in super system 1 and 2---skimed through a few other books because I have meet or have heard great things about the books---As of today I am not a big fan of what is being printed---
Now, I do like what Dr. Al has to say ----the MIND games of poker players ------he is A OK and #1
Also, Mike C. has great stuff on his web site----
Other then that, hand selection, player selection, table selection and MY ATTITUDE that day are what I play by---
ohh -- and yes, I am a winning player and have helped many others turn thier game around to become winning players

PLAY ON

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

If you've learned to be a solid player through trial and error then that's great.

But you should still read the major poker texts because the opponents who are dangerous to you have read them.

Even if it doesn't change your playing style at all, you will learn an awful lot about the thought processes of your opponents.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

OP also probably doesn't understand that in some games (draw) or situations (the river in 7cs) that what you do needs to be randomized somewhat and there are ideal percentages in some of the more common match-ups.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

ive never read any poker books because i dont find they apply as much as forum posts do to the games i play

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

I have read several, but by "read" I mean "skimmed most of it but focused on parts of it which were novel".

The $10-$50 the books each cost is much less than the money I would have expended to learn these lessons from trial and error at the table.

Other references: I finally talked my roommate into reading HOH1 and it damn (is that even still a swear word??) near changed his winrate by a factor of -1.

Another friend I have refuses to read poker books and while he's great at reading people (purely from experience), he has no idea what he's doing when it comes to betting/raising/calling. For instance - "I've got the NUTS!! - ALL IN!!" Unfortunately, I can not talk him into reading anything, so he'll continue to learn slowly from experience.

Re: anyone else NOT read poker books?
 

Oh come on K dog. I left it wide open for you..

"Your" instead of "You're".

I thought you'd be all over that.