KJ OOP - checkup
 

Villain in this hand is 32/3/1.2 after a measly 68 hands. Don't know much about him otherwise. BB is a peel-happy donkey.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

I'd say check/call is worse than either bet/fold or check/fold. You're gonna be a huge underdog if he bets this so if you check I think you should be folding. I like bet/fold because you'll get some calls from 6x and other random pocket pairs.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

bet this river

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

what about the whiffed straight draws? Not a big enough factor?

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

[ QUOTE ]
what about the whiffed straight draws? Not a big enough factor?

[/ QUOTE ]

While the sample size on Villain is small, I don't think someone w/those stats bluffs the river w/a missed straight draw to make c/calling a better play than bet/fold. I also think it's pretty unlikely he bluff-raises you here which also favors bet/fold, he will call w/a 6, PP etc that will just checkbehind if you check.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

I check fold the turn, smallish pot, oop w/only K high. They are prolly calling w/a low PP or a 6. I really don't like getting raised on the turn either b/c it puts you in a really tough spot

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

[ QUOTE ]
I check fold the turn, smallish pot, oop w/only K high. They are prolly calling w/a low PP or a 6. I really don't like getting raised on the turn either b/c it puts you in a really tough spot

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. The ace gives you a ton of fold equity. Some people might even fold a better hand (22-55). Most goobers are calling that flop with any two cards higher than 8, but many of them won't keep calling when the ace hits. I'd prefer they fold their 3-6 outters than see the ace and decide to bluff me off the best hand. And getting raised on the turn is super easy - you fold.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

The goobers calling w/low PPs on the flop aren't folding them on the turn. I think the only folding equity you have is from hands you are currently beating

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

I think checking the turn gives up way too much. The A is the perfect card to follow through with. Nobody has shown any strength in the hand except for me, and a lot of hands that looked promising enough to my opponents to peel the flop just turned to goo with the big, scary ace.

Yes, I may be ahead of a lot of hands I'm folding, but in a 3-way pot, OOP with K-high, it's a good thing.

The interesting part of the hand was the river, I think. I am actually really bad at recognizing the TOP 'OOP on the end as an underdog' situation. Anybody have any more examples of times like these?

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

[ QUOTE ]
The goobers calling w/low PPs on the flop aren't folding them on the turn. I think the only folding equity you have is from hands you are currently beating

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd disagree w/this based on my experience

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

I bet this turn. He's peeling with overcards very often and you can't call him down if he decides to bet.

I bet this river too. He probably has a 6 or another low pocket pair. Fold to a raise.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

just bet the riv bc he will call with any pair here. however, he will check behind with all of these pairs but bet all his 8s or aces.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

I'm just calling with KJo OOP.

As played, I'm checking the flop and seeing what happens behind me.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

I think the turn debate is very interesting. The Ace increases your fold equity but only if UTG is a flop peeler who open limps quite a bit. Is he?

River, easy bet fold

pre-flop is also interesting: And I agree with Brooks, here. But normally I raise KJo in the sb but I'll call if I have reason to believe that there's an ace out there in a small field. You were playing the game, but I think UTG's stats would have me thinking twice about raising KJo in SB. (For the same reason, I'd probably just check fold the turn)

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The goobers calling w/low PPs on the flop aren't folding them on the turn. I think the only folding equity you have is from hands you are currently beating

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd disagree w/this based on my experience

[/ QUOTE ]

Right because you can see what cards are folded out on the turn???

Preflop, dislike it given the line up, UTG limper with those stats may actually have you dominated, BB is not folding and likely peels on the flop + UTG might peel the flop as well after BB calls and he is closing action and you really don't have clue where you are come the turn.

Flop, ok you follow through ofcourse.

Turn, ehh it's a good card but you're betting into 2 of them I really don't like the chances that they both peeled without an A.

River, you get this far you should bet.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

Bet fold...the only missed draw that you are inducing a bluff from is a 57 limp utg. Might as well bet to get calls from pocket pairs (likely utg limp) or a 6.

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right because you can see what cards are folded out on the turn???

[/ QUOTE ]
It is a truism that we only see what people call with, and never what they fold. Which sentence does this trusim lend credence to? :
1) "Some people might even fold a better hand (22-55)."
2) "The goobers calling w/low PPs on the flop aren't folding them on the turn."

Re: KJ OOP - checkup
 

both of the statements are true but it all depends on the player you're facing. Against the avg donk statement 2 is true. Against a weak tight or 2p2er, statement 1 is true