Too aggressive with ATo?
 

MP1 was a loose passive fish, so I raised preflop to isolate him. CO is very loose, although slightly less passive, Button and BB are TAGs.

I kept betting because I felt like I had the best hand. I was expecting to be check-raised by the TAG, or slowplayed by the LAG, but it didn't happen.

Afterwards I felt maybe I was spewing chips?


Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (6.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (9.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...

Final Pot: 10.70 BB

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

I'd check the turn.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

I think the bet on the flop was ok, try to isolate one or the other, with two postflop callers I would slow down unimproved.
I would put both of them on a middle pair with this type of action. Maybe A7 for one of them and a small pocket pair for the other.
I would have checked the turn and bet the river.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

With the intention of?

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

Given the fact that the BB is a TAG (although he's really passive here), I would check the turn and try to spike that A. I certainly don't mind your attempted PF isolation play, and I would probably take a stab at it on the flop, as you did as well, but I figure that the other two are going to showdown, especially the TAG, once they call the bet on the flop. I would be the river though, after spiking said ace. I'm not sure how I'd proceed if c/r'd by the TAG. I would probably call down, but I may tempted to fold in case he had AQo or something but I can't really put him on a hand here. I guess he might have TPNK and is check calling, but I would think he would make a play sometime to see if you had something, and he probably would have bet the river if he had that.

I guess we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

the flop bet is a little sketchy, IMO. The turn bet is pretty bad into a field of three.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
the flop bet is a little sketchy, IMO. The turn bet is pretty bad into a field of three.

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The flop bet is standard

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

I a three-way pot I don't like the turn bet; the J is one of the bad cards that could have come on the turn. You're getting raised here a bunch of the time and getting both opponents to fold very little of the time.

Check and hope the player behind you checks and you can get a free shot to hit a card.

Note here that you may actually be inducing some big FTOP mistakes if checking the turn prevents the tag BB from getting a check-raise in, and so on...

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

Wait a minute. Are you guys saying this flop bet against 4 players is standard?
I very rarely bet the flop against 4 players with UI AT if I'm not in good position so I can take a free card.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wait a minute. Are you guys saying this flop bet against 4 players is standard?
I very rarely bet the flop against 4 players with UI AT if I'm not in good position so I can take a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting may well buy position and clean up outs, and the flop is likely to have missed everyone. You have a bunch of clean outs when behind, and may well still have the best hand.

I think the flop bet is fine. It will certainly make the hand much easier to play later. If you don't bet, the hand we'll often get bet behind you anyway and you're then stuck peeling to a weak draw with no initiative.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The flop bet is standard

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No way betting the flop into 4 players, one of whom is a TAG cold calling button is completely standard. I'm not saying it's incorrect, but we should rethink this. We are getting 10.4:1 and our folding equity is probably somewhere near 24:1; this board is ideal for betting the flop, being uncoordinated as [censored], but with four other players, a bet usually chases out those hands that aren't better than us, while those that are call, giving us pretty bad equity.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

What's wrong with chasing out hands we beat here? With Ace high I'd prefer to have KQ fold the flop.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop bet is standard

[/ QUOTE ]

No way betting the flop into 4 players, one of whom is a TAG cold calling button is completely standard. I'm not saying it's incorrect, but we should rethink this. We are getting 10.4:1 and our folding equity is probably somewhere near 24:1; this board is ideal for betting the flop, being uncoordinated as [censored], but with four other players, a bet usually chases out those hands that aren't better than us, while those that are call, giving us pretty bad equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding all 4 players in unlikely, I do agree with that. But even if we fold just 2 players, I think the flop bet is worth it, plus, we keep control of th hand.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop bet is standard

[/ QUOTE ]

No way betting the flop into 4 players, one of whom is a TAG cold calling button is completely standard. I'm not saying it's incorrect, but we should rethink this. We are getting 10.4:1 and our folding equity is probably somewhere near 24:1; this board is ideal for betting the flop, being uncoordinated as [censored], but with four other players, a bet usually chases out those hands that aren't better than us, while those that are call, giving us pretty bad equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

On this board, do you really want to check call? Thats spewing. Bet this flop, you were the pfr, it's only logical.

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

[ QUOTE ]

On this board, do you really want to check call? Thats spewing. Bet this flop, you were the pfr, it's only logical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, I would rather check/call 35% of the time to a CO or button bet and take my free card 65% of the time when I'm drawing. In other words, I would rather pay .35 BB to see the turn than 1

Re: Too aggressive with ATo?
 

We'll never know. Both players folded. In retrospect though I don't much like the way I played the turn. With a CO who would probably check, and a BB who probably wouldn't stick around on a flop like that without something of a hand, I think taking a free card was the better play.

I've recently dropped down from 15/30 to 5/10, and I'm surprised by the over-passitivity of a lot of my opponents. I think its making me a bit LAGGY [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]