So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

Background:

I make at least $150,000 per year as a professional poker player (at least $100k/yr) and casino/poker affiliate (at least $50k/yr). It is quite possible that my true yearly earn is $50-100k more than this, but this is the minimum level I am absolutely sure of.

I currently live in San Jose, CA.

My lease expires in July 2006 and I intend to move somewhere else at that time. I have one half of a two bedroom apartment, that costs $550/mo for my share.

The other option is moving to SoCal... likely Santa Monica, Westwood, Manhattan Beach, West LA, or something similiar.

If I move to LA, I will move in July. If I move to Vegas, I will move in January.... because:


Am I correct in my understanding that Nevada has no income tax and that the California income tax is 9% of your income for the year as reported on your federal taxes? This would seem to be a big incentive for me to move to Vegas, and do so at the beginning of the tax year. What happens if I move part way through the year as far as state taxes go?

Am I going to be bored out of my mind in Vegas? Are there good concert/show venues besides the flashy strip stuff? What is there to do out there? My experience outside of the strip consists of driving bugstud home to his place in Henderson. One of the reasons I hate San Jose is a lack of stuff to do, though I'd be willing to accept at least a comparable level of crap to do in a Vegas move.

What can I get in Vegas apartment-wise? Either a really nice 1 or 2 bedroom would be good. I'd like to be in an upper-middle class type of neighborhood, but middle-class wouldn't be undoable, as that's the area I live in now. Probably in Henderson I'm guessing?? Any other areas? A really big incentive to a 2 bedroom would be having a separate office and bedroom. One room for poker, one room for sex. It'd be great.

I am looking to buy a house in 5 years or so (probably not in Vegas), but I figure a few years of no state income tax would be an awesome way to help finance this little endeavor. Also, LA being 3 1/2 to 4 hours away is awesome as weekend trips there wouldn't be that hard at all.

I am also considering going back to school if I move there (I probably have a year at a JC first to make sure all my GE crap is knocked out)... I assume there is somewhere to do this? I wouldn't be opposed to a UNLV undergrad degree... assuming they have Economics?

Oh, and weather... how bad does it get? I figure summer will be one AC (house) to another (car) with the ocassional dip at the pool. Winters are... cold, but not terrible? I know spring/fall are nice.

Ummm, that's about all I have right now. Taxes aren't the main reason for moving to Vegas, but it turning out to be a huge incentive if I have everything right. I can definitely use an extra $15k a year in my pocket.


Thoughts?

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

I am actually in a very similar situation. I live in the Bay Area, and play poker for a living, and am trying to decide b/n staying in the Bay, moving to LA (near the beach) or moving to Vegas. I would buy a house though (and I think you should do same with your income, esp. if you move to Vegas). I posted a poll and thread in General a while back, but didn't get any real advice.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

I think you should definitely look for a place to buy if you move to Vegas. I perosnally would not like to live there. It's just like Disney Land.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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I think you should definitely look for a place to buy if you move to Vegas. I perosnally would not like to live there. It's just like Disney Land.

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I would live in Disneyland.


Also, I would buy, but I can't see myself living in Vegas for the rest of my life. That, and the buyer's market is pretty crappy no matter where you move.

I'd much rather wait 4-5 years and rent while saving up a substantial downpayment. Then decide where I want to settle for 10+ years and buy there. I highly doubt this will be Las Vegas, but it seems good for a 21 year old to live and have some fun.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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I am actually in a very similar situation. I live in the Bay Area, and play poker for a living, and am trying to decide b/n staying in the Bay, moving to LA (near the beach) or moving to Vegas. I would buy a house though (and I think you should do same with your income, esp. if you move to Vegas). I posted a poll and thread in General a while back, but didn't get any real advice.

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Market sucks, see above, not interested in buying at the current moment.

Also, you should definitely move out of the Bay Area... LA is my preferred place to live, but it's so ridiculously expensive that I can't do it right now without wasting a ton of money on really high rent for a really crappy place.

It should be noted, that prior to this year, I made just about nothing. So my actual savings is only going to be about $25-50,000 after I pay my taxes this year. California 9.3% state income tax was not something I thought much about until recently, and didn't really save accordingly.

So a few years in a no state income tax state and low rent would a decent way to save up some good money to buy a home.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

Before I respond it's important to note that my responses come from me also looking into moving to Vegas. I don't actually live there.

Correct, there is no state income tax in Vegas. I've also heard that either there is no sales tax, or it's very low compared to other states.

As for taxes, when I moved from CA to MA I was required to pay CA state income taxes based on the amount of time I was there. So for example if I was there for half a year. I'd have to pay taxes on half of my earned income based on CA's tax structure. And half my income based on MA's tax structure. I'd assume a move to Vegas would be similar. Any CPA would be easily able to help you with this.

I don't really have much information about schooling. You might consider that some colleges are more expensive for non-residents. You might be required to live in the area for a couple of years before you get the cheaper rate.

Rent is fairly cheap compared to SoCal and I'm assuming NorCal as well. Like any place it depends on your needs. There are low end areas and there are nicer areas. I've personally been browsing in the NorthWest area of Vegas which is nice and pretty new. You can rent a full blown house there for around 1150. Lot's of apartments in the area too which run around 800-900 for a 2 bedroom. These are all around 20 minutes from the strip.

Can't really tell you too much about the weather that you probably don't already know.

Good luck.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

Since there are no income taxes actually the sales tax is rather high at 7.75 %. I live in vegas and own a townhouse and the price of your mortgage would be about the same as an apartment and I dont think the prices would be dropping any time soon. Let me know if I can be any help to you.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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I am actually in a very similar situation. I live in the Bay Area, and play poker for a living, and am trying to decide b/n staying in the Bay, moving to LA (near the beach) or moving to Vegas. I would buy a house though (and I think you should do same with your income, esp. if you move to Vegas). I posted a poll and thread in General a while back, but didn't get any real advice.

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Market sucks, see above, not interested in buying at the current moment.

Also, you should definitely move out of the Bay Area... LA is my preferred place to live, but it's so ridiculously expensive that I can't do it right now without wasting a ton of money on really high rent for a really crappy place.

It should be noted, that prior to this year, I made just about nothing. So my actual savings is only going to be about $25-50,000 after I pay my taxes this year. California 9.3% state income tax was not something I thought much about until recently, and didn't really save accordingly.

So a few years in a no state income tax state and low rent would a decent way to save up some good money to buy a home.

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I know you don't WANT to buy. Sometimes I don't WANT to push very small edges at the poker table, but I do. Buying a house even in a slow market is major +EV compared to renting. You are throwing money away by renting, bottom line. If you pay 1000/month, that is 12,000 for 5 years, or 60K down the drain. Maybe you save money for a down payment five years from now, maybe not. If you buy, get a loan with no down payment, your mortgage payment will be slightly higher than 1K/month, if not equal. At the end of the 5 years, you have equity in the house, and the money you will save for the next downpayment. As long as you live in your home for two years, you avoid short term capital gains. If I were young like you, I would buy as much house as I could possibly afford, and rent a room or two to cover the majority of the mortgage payment each month. You live effectively for free, and you get all the savings that a house gives you. I am no financial advisor, so you should study these things on your own, but I find it hard to believe that someone like yourself is willing to take the risk of casinowhoring, affilating for sites, etc... would not be willing to buy a house to maximize your financial well-being. Making 100K a year and not buying a house is the equivalent of folding pocket aces on this hand so that they will pay off more on the next. Just dumb!

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know you don't WANT to buy. Sometimes I don't WANT to push very small edges at the poker table, but I do. Buying a house even in a slow market is major +EV compared to renting. You are throwing money away by renting, bottom line. If you pay 1000/month, that is 12,000 for 5 years, or 60K down the drain. Maybe you save money for a down payment five years from now, maybe not. If you buy, get a loan with no down payment, your mortgage payment will be slightly higher than 1K/month, if not equal. At the end of the 5 years, you have equity in the house, and the money you will save for the next downpayment. As long as you live in your home for two years, you avoid short term capital gains. If I were young like you, I would buy as much house as I could possibly afford, and rent a room or two to cover the majority of the mortgage payment each month. You live effectively for free, and you get all the savings that a house gives you. I am no financial advisor, so you should study these things on your own, but I find it hard to believe that someone like yourself is willing to take the risk of casinowhoring, affilating for sites, etc... would not be willing to buy a house to maximize your financial well-being. Making 100K a year and not buying a house is the equivalent of folding pocket aces on this hand so that they will pay off more on the next. Just dumb!


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I disagree, there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting. A general rule of thumb is that 2-3 years is a decent occupancy breakeven rate for owning vs renting. This also has to be weighed against your opinion on interest rates and the specific real estate and rental market in the area you are looking at.

for the OPs situation, it is my opinion that renting is much better, and it sounds like he thinks so as well.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

Buy a luxury RV and establish Nevada as your primary residence, then spend all the time you want in LA, or anywhere else you damn well please. Lots of advantages to being young, single, and able to make a good living anywhere there's an internet connection.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]


I disagree, there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting. A general rule of thumb is that 2-3 years is a decent occupancy breakeven rate for owning vs renting. This also has to be weighed against your opinion on interest rates and the specific real estate and rental market in the area you are looking at.

for the OPs situation, it is my opinion that renting is much better, and it sounds like he thinks so as well.

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I was going to type basically the same thing. Good points and good advice to the OP.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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[ QUOTE ]


I disagree, there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting. A general rule of thumb is that 2-3 years is a decent occupancy breakeven rate for owning vs renting. This also has to be weighed against your opinion on interest rates and the specific real estate and rental market in the area you are looking at.

for the OPs situation, it is my opinion that renting is much better, and it sounds like he thinks so as well.

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I was going to type basically the same thing. Good points and good advice to the OP.

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Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I know you don't WANT to buy. Sometimes I don't WANT to push very small edges at the poker table, but I do. Buying a house even in a slow market is major +EV compared to renting. You are throwing money away by renting, bottom line. If you pay 1000/month, that is 12,000 for 5 years, or 60K down the drain. Maybe you save money for a down payment five years from now, maybe not. If you buy, get a loan with no down payment, your mortgage payment will be slightly higher than 1K/month, if not equal. At the end of the 5 years, you have equity in the house, and the money you will save for the next downpayment. As long as you live in your home for two years, you avoid short term capital gains. If I were young like you, I would buy as much house as I could possibly afford, and rent a room or two to cover the majority of the mortgage payment each month. You live effectively for free, and you get all the savings that a house gives you. I am no financial advisor, so you should study these things on your own, but I find it hard to believe that someone like yourself is willing to take the risk of casinowhoring, affilating for sites, etc... would not be willing to buy a house to maximize your financial well-being. Making 100K a year and not buying a house is the equivalent of folding pocket aces on this hand so that they will pay off more on the next. Just dumb!


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there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting.

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For example?

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting.

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For example?

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Off the top of my head -- two things:

Insurance - renters insurance just covers your personal property in the house. Homeowners insurance covers you personal property AND the real property (house).

Maintenance/Repairs - if your renting and the washing machine, dish washer, heater, etc breaks - call your landlord or management company. If your an owner, you have to get it fixed and pay for it yourself.

Myself, I own but I've been where I am or a while and plan on being here a while longer.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

I was hoping someone would chime in on what they like/love/dislike/hate about living in Vegas. And what parts of town are good to live in (ie, buy a house). I have been there a bunch, but never really outside the strip besides Lake Mead (me and a bunch of friends go on a houseboat trip there every year). The biggest thing that Vegas has over the Bay and LA, is the cost of living is much lower (mainly to buy real estate, but also taxes and such). And this would probably be the thing that would swing me, if I did decide on Vegas. Though, I do think it would be awesome to have a condo/townhouse in Santa Monica near the beach.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
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there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting.

[/ QUOTE ]

For example?

[/ QUOTE ]

Off the top of my head -- two things:

Insurance - renters insurance just covers your personal property in the house. Homeowners insurance covers you personal property AND the real property (house).

Maintenance/Repairs - if your renting and the washing machine, dish washer, heater, etc breaks - call your landlord or management company. If your an owner, you have to get it fixed and pay for it yourself.

Myself, I own but I've been where I am or a while and plan on being here a while longer.

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1. interest
2. property tax
3. insurance
4. maintenance/repairs
5. higher utility charge

Also don't forget when you sell your house you are likely to pay 6% agent fees PLUS buyer's closing cost.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

New York Times had a great article on this topic 6 weeks ago: Is It Better to Buy or Rent?


THE thought has occurred to just about everybody who owns a home in a hot housing market: maybe it's time to cash out.

The hard part is figuring out how to do so. Only a few families can actually pick up their life in, say, California and move it to Nebraska. The other option - renting - has long been derided as the equivalent of throwing money away.

But renting might deserve another look right now. After five years in which rents have barely budged while house prices in New York, Washington, Los Angeles and elsewhere have doubled, renting has become a surprisingly smart option for many people who never would have considered it before.

Owning a home often ties up hundreds of thousands of dollars that might be invested more safely and more lucratively elsewhere over the next decade. And while real estate brokers may hate to acknowledge it, home ownership involves its own versions of throwing money away, like property taxes and the costs of borrowing.

Add it all up - which The New York Times did, in an analysis of the major costs and benefits of owning and renting, including tax breaks - and owning a home today is more expensive than renting in much of the Northeast, Florida and California. Only if prices rise well above their already lofty levels will home ownership turn out to be the good deal that it is widely assumed to be.

In the Bay Area of California, a typical family that buys a $1 million house - which is average in some towns - will spend about $5,000 a month to live there, according to the Times analysis. The family could rent a similar house for about $2,500, real estate records show, and could pay part of that bill with the interest earned by the money that was not used for a down payment.

This gaping difference helped persuade Eloise Christensen to sell her century-old Victorian cottage in downtown Larkspur, Calif., for $1.05 million this year. Now she rents a two-story house in Stinson Beach for $2,400 a month. From her living room, she can sip tea and watch the waves from the Pacific Ocean.

"It just seems out of control," said Ms. Christensen, 43, a massage therapist and graphic designer. "It didn't seem to me that the market was going to be able to sustain these high prices."

There are obviously benefits to home ownership beyond the financial, like peace of mind and a feeling of stability. Owners cannot have their home yanked away by a landlord who has decided to move back in. Owners can also change the color of their living room walls or fix a draft seeping through their windows without asking permission.

Surrounding her Larkspur cottage, Ms. Christensen had built a garden with rosemary, lavender and boxwood hedges to complement the pear and fig trees already there. She is not doing anything like that in Stinson Beach.

Combine these benefits with the transaction costs of a house sale, and renting probably does not make sense for most people who already own their home and feel settled in it.

But the calculation can look quite different for those who are considering a move anyway or who do not yet own a home. At the very least, renters in boom markets, who often lament that they are wasting money, should know that their choice has as powerful an economic rationale as buying does right now.

"I am a proponent of buying," said Tchaka Owen, 37, a loan officer and licensed real-estate agent in Miami who is renting a two-bedroom apartment overlooking the bay there. "But you can get so much more for your money, renting instead of buying. We're paying half the amount we would be paying if we owned this place."

In Manhattan, 1,000-square-foot, two-bedroom apartments on the Upper East Side now rent for about $3,700 a month. Buying a similar apartment costs around $1.1 million, which can translate into monthly payments of $6,000 or so.

To determine the cost of renting, the Times analysis added monthly rent and renters' insurance. For owning, the analysis included typical costs for home insurance, major repairs, property taxes and mortgage payments, as well as the tax deductions they create.

Renters were given credit for a small return - about 4 percent, after taxes - on the money they could have invested in bonds or stocks instead of spending it on a down payment and closing costs. Buyers received credit for the portion of the mortgage they were paying off, as opposed to the interest costs.

When the net costs of owning are less than those of renting, as is the case in Chicago, Dallas, St. Louis and much of the middle of the country, the argument for buying becomes overwhelming. So long as home prices do not fall sharply, home buyers in these places will do much better than renters.

But when owning is more expensive every month, buyers are betting entirely on price appreciation.

For new home buyers, prices in New York would need to rise roughly another 13 percent over the next five years for the average buyer to do better than the average renter over that span. In Northern California, where the gap between house prices and rents is largest, home values would need to go up about 19 percent by 2010.

Over the next decade, the break-even increase is about 25 percent in New York and 40 percent in California.

Such increases have been easily achieved in the recent past. But even economists who do not consider the real estate market to be in a bubble predict that price gains will slow. Other forecasters argue that values will fall, as they did on the coasts in the early 1990's, or be stuck near their current levels for years to come. No matter who is right, the buy-versus-rent debate is a closer call than it has been in years.

"If you believe you'll be moving in the next four or five years, I'd rent," said Thomas Z. Lys, an accounting professor at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University . "If you're a long-termer, I still would buy."

The single biggest misconception about home ownership, some brokers and economists say, might revolve around tax deductions. Many people seem to believe that buying a home can actually save them money because the interest on their mortgage is tax deductible.

But all that deduction does is reduce the cost of borrowing the money - a cost that would not exist if the family were not buying the home. Families spend about six years in a house, on average, according to the National Association of Realtors. In that time, the interest on a $600,000 mortgage would add up to about $120,000, even at today's low rates and even after the tax deduction, according to National City Corporation, a large lender.

"Don't be buying a house because you think you're saving on the taxes," said Frank Borges LLosa, owner of FranklyRealty.com, a brokerage in Arlington, Va. "You'll save even more by not buying and renting."

Mr. LLosa added: "I'm not saying not to buy. I'm saying don't buy just for the tax reasons."

Many homeowners also do not receive the full deductions from home ownership. In the Northeast and California, homeowners now have so many deductions that some must pay the alternative minimum tax. This tax effectively wipes out part of their property-tax deduction, further cutting into the benefits of home ownership.

Other homeowners do not itemize their deductions or, if they do so, end up with total deductions only a little larger than the standard deduction that the government offers to all taxpayers, even renters.

"A lot of people hugely overvalue the mortgage deduction," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a liberal group in Washington, "because they compare it to no deduction instead of comparing it to the standard deduction."

Mr. Baker is one of the avant garde renters. He and his wife sold their condominium in Washington last year for $445,000 and now rent a similar one nearby for $2,200 a month.

The Times analysis made a number of assumptions favorable to buyers, like giving them full credit for the deductions for mortgage interest and property taxes, noted Mark Zandi, chief economist of Economy .com, a research company. Still, the monthly costs of buying were more expensive than those for renting in any market where the price of a typical house was more than 20 times larger than the annual rent to live in it.

In the Bay Area, this "rent ratio" exceeds 33. In New York, Boston, Los Angeles and Miami, it is just above 25. A typical four-bedroom house in Brookline, Mass., for example, costs about $1.2 million to buy and $4,500 a month to rent, according to Chobee Hoy Associates Real Estate, a brokerage there.

At 20, Washington is right near the cutoff. But renters who live in apartment buildings, like Mr. Baker, often get an extra benefit: some portion of their utilities bill is typically covered by the building's owner.

Mr. Owen, the loan officer in Miami, and his girlfriend, Polly Thompson, pay $1,700 a month for a top-floor apartment that has views of both the city's skyline and the Atlantic Ocean. After talking to brokers, he said he thought that the apartment would sell for close to $650,000, giving it a rent ratio of more than 30.

"It's obvious," he said, "that renting is such a better deal."

But to many people, the psychological benefits of buying are almost impossible to overcome. Owning makes them feel that they have achieved the American dream, or it gives them the secure sense that, if nothing else, they have a tangible asset where they can sleep at night.

Those are nice feelings, indeed. The question is how much they are worth to you.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

I was looking at the Green Valley area?

Any other areas that are nice?

I'm also looking for opinions of people who actually LIVE there about stuff to do, but haven't gotten as much as I'd have liken.

Also, there's almost no way I'll buy right now, especially in Vegas. I just can't see myself staying there long enough to even begin to reach a break-even point.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

I've lived in Vegas for 7 years now. I love Vegas, Ive had apartments on all sides of town practically. Henderson/GV was probably the nicest though. I go to UNLV, they have a nice business department and an Econ major. Pretty cheap compared to other schools too. Really hot in the summer...really hot. Cox cable provides solid fast internet hardly ever goes down (important!) sales tax was like 7.75 or something, no state taxes as has been stated. Go to apartmentguide.com and search vegas for apartment rates if thats what you want. Otherwise everybody and their brother has a house to sell you right now. Good luck in your move.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

See now that was somewhat useful. Thanks.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

Those other guys like to argue about math. Im a Film major, I dont understand math lol.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting.

[/ QUOTE ]

For example?

[/ QUOTE ]

Off the top of my head -- two things:

Insurance - renters insurance just covers your personal property in the house. Homeowners insurance covers you personal property AND the real property (house).

Maintenance/Repairs - if your renting and the washing machine, dish washer, heater, etc breaks - call your landlord or management company. If your an owner, you have to get it fixed and pay for it yourself.

Myself, I own but I've been where I am or a while and plan on being here a while longer.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. interest
2. property tax
3. insurance
4. maintenance/repairs
5. higher utility charge

Also don't forget when you sell your house you are likely to pay 6% agent fees PLUS buyer's closing cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever you do... PLEASE DON'T BUY A HOUSE!

(It keeps driving the rent up in all my places.) Talking about BANK!

Can you deduct the rent from your taxes?

Yes, you may pay 6% for selling, but you only pay $1000 in closing costs if you house is priced $1000 too high.

No, if you think you probably are not staying in a place more than 2 years, then the risks probably suggest you should rent. But if there is a 60% chance you will stay longer than 3 years and only a 20% chance you would move before 18 months... Well, it's starting to sound like a poker decision... I'm going w/ EV+ in buying.

As to the guy talking about renting out your rooms... now you are talking about a part time job and you better educate yourself before you jump in. Making the wrong moves as a landlord can be extreemly expensive. Read the law and join a property association whereever you move to.

psw

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

I really hate articles like the one in the NYT posted. They start adding up all the interest payments and say "look how much this is" and forget to add up all the rent that is going out the window too.

Sure there is the AMT too, but you have to be making tons before that kicks in. Chances are a single guy doesn't have that many deductions ect....

Read the article. But then check the math on each thing listed for you. You will find that most of it doesn't apply to you specifically.

Now, given that you don't WANT to own. Well, that's the best argument yet for not doing it. You want freedom. There isn't anything wrong with that.

psw

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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I was looking at the Green Valley area?

Any other areas that are nice?

I'm also looking for opinions of people who actually LIVE there about stuff to do, but haven't gotten as much as I'd have liken.

Also, there's almost no way I'll buy right now, especially in Vegas. I just can't see myself staying there long enough to even begin to reach a break-even point.

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My wife and I moved here in June 2004 from Pennsylvania mainly for a climate change. We both got sick of shoveling snow. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

We love it here. We rent in the Northwest part of town near but not in Summerlin. 1200 ft.^2, 2BR, 2BA in a community that caters to dog owners, about $930/mo.

As far as things to do...almost every major musical artist/group that goes on tour comes to Las Vegas. For example, we're going to a U2 show on Friday.

Mt. Charleston, the highest peak in Nevada, is about a 45 minute drive. Here you can participate in winter sports, ie skiing or snowboarding...plus hiking or camping during the warmer months, or just to get away from the heat during the summer for a few hours. It's 20-30 degrees cooler at 11K feet.

Lake Mead was already mentioned. In addition, there is Red Rock Canyon and Valley of Fire, both state parks I believe. Great for hiking and camping.

There is the speedway which hosts NASCAR and drag racing events.

Right around the corner from my place there is a mini grand prix place where you can go drive go carts, play video games, etc.

There are plenty of bars away from the strip to go shoot darts or play pool.

Nearby you can go skydiving, bungee jumping, rock climbing, and just about anything else you can imagine. You can go visit old mining towns that are now ghost towns. Then there's Area 51 and the old nuclear testing sites. Of course, you can always go hump in Parhump. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As far as weather goes, I love it. It gets cool in the winter, but nowhere near the deep freeze I'm used to from Pennsylvania. YMMV since you're a CA person, but I think weather in the 50's or 60's in Feb. is awesome. Average rainfall is between 4 and 5 inches per year, so there are plenty of sunny days.

Around town there are plenty of parks and recreational areas. Some of these put on concerts or other events during holidays. Red, white, and boom is an annual July 4th event that brings several well-known bands for an all day concert. This year, there was a free Red Hot Chili Peppers (along with Weezer) show for the Vegas Centennial.

I'm sure I'm missing a whole bunch of stuff, but I've only been here a little over a year.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

Talk to Gonores. He just did the same thing for similar reasons and for likely a similar time frame.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

You win post of the thread.

This made me a whole lot more comfortable about a potential move.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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Talk to Gonores. He just did the same thing for similar reasons and for likely a similar time frame.

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But I don't want to spend all my money on crazy pineapple at the wynn and strippers.... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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Mt. Charleston, the highest peak in Nevada, is about a 45 minute drive. Here you can participate in winter sports, ie skiing or snowboarding...plus hiking or camping during the warmer months, or just to get away from the heat during the summer for a few hours. It's 20-30 degrees cooler at 11K feet.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa....

You can ski in Vegas? This was actually something I was slightly concerned about, but I figured Tahoe couldn't be too far.

What's this Lake Mead you speak of? I presume you can't surf on it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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There is the speedway which hosts NASCAR and drag racing events.


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[ QUOTE ]
You win post of the thread.

This made me a whole lot more comfortable about a potential move.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

There is the speedway which hosts NASCAR and drag racing events.


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You win post of the thread.

This made me a whole lot more comfortable about a potential move.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]


I know you don't WANT to buy. Sometimes I don't WANT to push very small edges at the poker table, but I do. Buying a house even in a slow market is major +EV compared to renting. You are throwing money away by renting, bottom line. If you pay 1000/month, that is 12,000 for 5 years, or 60K down the drain. Maybe you save money for a down payment five years from now, maybe not. If you buy, get a loan with no down payment, your mortgage payment will be slightly higher than 1K/month, if not equal. At the end of the 5 years, you have equity in the house, and the money you will save for the next downpayment. As long as you live in your home for two years, you avoid short term capital gains. If I were young like you, I would buy as much house as I could possibly afford, and rent a room or two to cover the majority of the mortgage payment each month. You live effectively for free, and you get all the savings that a house gives you. I am no financial advisor, so you should study these things on your own, but I find it hard to believe that someone like yourself is willing to take the risk of casinowhoring, affilating for sites, etc... would not be willing to buy a house to maximize your financial well-being. Making 100K a year and not buying a house is the equivalent of folding pocket aces on this hand so that they will pay off more on the next. Just dumb!

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Well lets see, I bought a $140,000 house exactly 5 years ago at 6% Fixed interest rate. The house is worth roughly the exact same today as it was 5 years ago. My principal has only gone down $4,700 since then. So if I was to sell my house, after real estate commisions I would probably lose a little money. Not to mention all the repair and maintenance costs associated with owning, even in a 5 year old house like mine. If I could do it all over, I would definately rent, sooooooo much easier, and so much more freedom. Not to mention I could live in a nice 3 bedroom townhouse community with swimming pool, 24 hour fitness center, and many more amnenities for less than my mortgage payment. My utility payments would be atleast 30% less in an apartment also.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

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there are a number of costs associated with buying/owning that are cheaper/nonexistant when renting.

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For example?

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Off the top of my head -- two things:

Insurance - renters insurance just covers your personal property in the house. Homeowners insurance covers you personal property AND the real property (house).

Maintenance/Repairs - if your renting and the washing machine, dish washer, heater, etc breaks - call your landlord or management company. If your an owner, you have to get it fixed and pay for it yourself.

Myself, I own but I've been where I am or a while and plan on being here a while longer.

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1. interest
2. property tax
3. insurance
4. maintenance/repairs
5. higher utility charge

Also don't forget when you sell your house you are likely to pay 6% agent fees PLUS buyer's closing cost.

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Whatever you do... PLEASE DON'T BUY A HOUSE!

(It keeps driving the rent up in all my places.) Talking about BANK!

Can you deduct the rent from your taxes?

Yes, you may pay 6% for selling, but you only pay $1000 in closing costs if you house is priced $1000 too high.

No, if you think you probably are not staying in a place more than 2 years, then the risks probably suggest you should rent. But if there is a 60% chance you will stay longer than 3 years and only a 20% chance you would move before 18 months... Well, it's starting to sound like a poker decision... I'm going w/ EV+ in buying.

As to the guy talking about renting out your rooms... now you are talking about a part time job and you better educate yourself before you jump in. Making the wrong moves as a landlord can be extreemly expensive. Read the law and join a property association whereever you move to.

psw

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Glad to see someone on this forum has some sense. Good points all. As far as the room renting, I was thinking more along the lines of college buddies living together. One person owns the house, the other pays "rent." But I understand your point. Since the OP already has a roommate, I figured it wouldnt be that much of a stretch.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've lived in Vegas for 7 years now. I love Vegas, Ive had apartments on all sides of town practically. Henderson/GV was probably the nicest though. I go to UNLV, they have a nice business department and an Econ major. Pretty cheap compared to other schools too. Really hot in the summer...really hot. Cox cable provides solid fast internet hardly ever goes down (important!) sales tax was like 7.75 or something, no state taxes as has been stated. Go to apartmentguide.com and search vegas for apartment rates if thats what you want. Otherwise everybody and their brother has a house to sell you right now. Good luck in your move.

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I read an article last week that real estate is booming near the strip, went up 88% in the past year alone. Perhaps buying isn't that bad, even if you gain a measly 7-10% increase in a 1 year period of time.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well lets see, I bought a $140,000 house exactly 5 years ago at 6% Fixed interest rate. The house is worth roughly the exact same today as it was 5 years ago....

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Sample Size

PS. I bought a new home in Florida 2.5 years ago for $170K. The nearly identical one next door to me sold for $255K 9 months ago. Also a couple we know, is now looking to buy a home and they have said that anything similar to our home, priced around $300K, has not been staying on the market for more than a month. (they have been looking for a while now)

I believe some of this is due to the hurricanes of this and last year bringing up the cost of construction in Florida and that Florida was probably undervalued previously.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well lets see, I bought a $140,000 house exactly 5 years ago at 6% Fixed interest rate. The house is worth roughly the exact same today as it was 5 years ago....

[/ QUOTE ]

Sample Size

PS. I bought a new home in Florida 2.5 years ago for $170K. The nearly identical one next door to me sold for $255K 9 months ago. Also a couple we know, is now looking to buy a home and they have said that anything similar to our home, priced around $300K, has not been staying on the market for more than a month. (they have been looking for a while now)

I believe some of this is due to the hurricanes of this and last year bringing up the cost of construction in Florida and that Florida was probably undervalued previously.

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Yeah, I don't actually think you are right about your home in Michigan, but you may be. The last five years have been extreemly (damn, I always put in that extra e...) good to home owners. There have been very few places that have seen no movement or declines in RE. Now something else to consider: LV has seen the highest, or nearly so, appreciation in property values in the nation. Some of these places may actually see a bit of a bubble burst.

I am still bullish in Portland OR as our city has not had the same insane increases that the rest of this coast has seen. I'm buying another this spring.

psw

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I know you don't WANT to buy. Sometimes I don't WANT to push very small edges at the poker table, but I do. Buying a house even in a slow market is major +EV compared to renting. You are throwing money away by renting, bottom line. If you pay 1000/month, that is 12,000 for 5 years, or 60K down the drain. Maybe you save money for a down payment five years from now, maybe not. If you buy, get a loan with no down payment, your mortgage payment will be slightly higher than 1K/month, if not equal. At the end of the 5 years, you have equity in the house, and the money you will save for the next downpayment. As long as you live in your home for two years, you avoid short term capital gains. If I were young like you, I would buy as much house as I could possibly afford, and rent a room or two to cover the majority of the mortgage payment each month. You live effectively for free, and you get all the savings that a house gives you. I am no financial advisor, so you should study these things on your own, but I find it hard to believe that someone like yourself is willing to take the risk of casinowhoring, affilating for sites, etc... would not be willing to buy a house to maximize your financial well-being. Making 100K a year and not buying a house is the equivalent of folding pocket aces on this hand so that they will pay off more on the next. Just dumb!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well lets see, I bought a $140,000 house exactly 5 years ago at 6% Fixed interest rate. The house is worth roughly the exact same today as it was 5 years ago. My principal has only gone down $4,700 since then. So if I was to sell my house, after real estate commisions I would probably lose a little money. Not to mention all the repair and maintenance costs associated with owning, even in a 5 year old house like mine. If I could do it all over, I would definately rent, sooooooo much easier, and so much more freedom. Not to mention I could live in a nice 3 bedroom townhouse community with swimming pool, 24 hour fitness center, and many more amnenities for less than my mortgage payment. My utility payments would be atleast 30% less in an apartment also.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it hard to believe you would be +EV renting vs owning given conditions you've listed. Here's the math as I see it:

figuring 20% down, you'd have a 112k mortgage and a payment around $650/mo. Lets assume that you're rent for something similar would have been $500/mo.

After 5years (60payments) you'd have payed 30,000 in rent and you get exactly zero of it back. If you sell now and lose 6% (you can negotiate this and find better deals with realtors by the way) that's $8400. Figure $7500 on closing costs to buy and $7500 to sell that's $23,400. So you're +$6600. Add the tax breaks on the interest deductions over the years and you're ahead.

I'm not sure what maintenance costs you've had in 5 years, but if its a new house they are probably pretty minor.

Having a hard time seeing how you're losing money by owning?
FishNChips

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

fishnchips -

you need to include the opportunity cost of capital (i.e. what he could have earned if he instead invested his down payment), and you are underestimating ownership costs in my opinion with a big one being insurance and another big one being property taxes.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
fishnchips -

you need to include the opportunity cost of capital (i.e. what he could have earned if he instead invested his down payment), and you are underestimating ownership costs in my opinion with a big one being insurance and another big one being property taxes.

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Good point on the opportunity cost.
I think we differ on the amount of maintenance. I've lived in new homes and didn't spend much if any on maintenance.
Property taxes is a pretty good point. 1% annual = $1400/yr = $6000 over 5yrs.

You're pretty close to break even if you don't make a penny over $140k when you sell. Not very many markets in the US that haven't appreciated even a few % over the last years.

All this said... it sounds like OP may be in a situation where renting is the right way to go.

FishNChips

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

You will save $14,000 per year alone in State income tax. Your total cost of living excluding housing should save you another $6000 minimum. Your rent has no tax advantages, 100% of the interest expense of your primary residence loan is deductible as you will be filing the 1040 form. Homes in Vegas have gone up at a whopping 40% rate last year alone. So a $180,000 home in 2004 is now worth over $250,000. Any consideration of not buying when you have an annual income of $150,000 is not solid thinking.

Re: So I\'m thinking of moving to Vegas... help? (some kinda-tax stuff)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well lets see, I bought a $140,000 house exactly 5 years ago at 6% Fixed interest rate. The house is worth roughly the exact same today as it was 5 years ago. My principal has only gone down $4,700 since then. So if I was to sell my house, after real estate commisions I would probably lose a little money. Not to mention all the repair and maintenance costs associated with owning, even in a 5 year old house like mine. If I could do it all over, I would definately rent, sooooooo much easier, and so much more freedom. Not to mention I could live in a nice 3 bedroom townhouse community with swimming pool, 24 hour fitness center, and many more amnenities for less than my mortgage payment. My utility payments would be atleast 30% less in an apartment also

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should move out of Michigan. My girlfriend bought the one we live in 7 years ago for $56,000. With two additions and other renovations we've put slightly over $100,000 more into it and carry a $150,000 mortgage at 5.375% fixed (refinanced two years ago). It's now worth over $300,000 and still going up. Buy, don't rent. It's your retirement safety chute if everything else goes bad.