hey dikshit read this...
 

I used to 8 table 10-20 6max and pay about 30k in rake every month. I now 1 table 1000 nl. usualy not on your site. i may end up paying less than 4k. You and your company are making a bad long term move. I play a lot of live poker. I bad mouth you guys as much as I can to any and eveyone who will listen. If I win a big tournement I will make it my platform to educate everyone about how impotant the rake is. I will mention rakeback in every interview i give. I am just one person but in fighting a big monopoly like you it has to start somewere. If I can make only one person a day leave your site then I am happy. Maybee it dose not hurt you that much but you already lost 20k a month from me. If I gave this much action in bellagio I would expect a lot. Only a chump would give all that action for nothing. Way to chase away your best customers. I hate you. Thats all.

P.S. If the majority of people are so dumb they will pay tens of thousands of dollars a month to play a game then kuddos to you. You need to give something SUBSANTIAL to your best customers that know the value of their dollar.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I used to 8 table 10-20 6max and pay about 30k in rake every month. I now 1 table 1000 nl. usualy not on your site. i may end up paying less than 4k.

[/ QUOTE ]

But aren't you also significantly earning less, as well?

Rake sucks, but it's the price you pay for having access to Party players.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
But aren't you also significantly earning less, as well?

Rake sucks, but it's the price you pay for having access to Party players

[/ QUOTE ]


short term yes, but long term without the extra money from rakeback I will be better off fighting the rake by playing in bigger games where the effect of the rake is less. Me playing 8 games but getting a portion of my rake back was a win/win. Now that rake is just my enemy I would rather play less, but bigger games. This hurts them and me because when I played so many hands a month I never had a lossing month even when I had a 300 bb/downswing and they got a lot of rake. Now I will try to get better in NL where good players have a bigger advantage and the fish will go broke quicker. I would rather gambool it up 8 tableing Sh limit where there is much more luck and the fish will be around longer. Fells like a lose lose to me.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

i thought people wer still getting rake on PP. I am so confused, its not even funny!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

Have you read anything on these forums? Rakeback has always been "illegal" on party but that has never stopped it.

If party ever did find a way to kill rakeback I'de be with you though and look into other alternatives.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

I don't care how much they make...only how much I can make.
If Party's rake-structure and/or rake-back situation is worse BUT I can still make better money there then I will play there.


FWIW - the rake at the Bellagio is worse than at Party....plus you are pretty much obligated to tip after a won hand. And they don't really give THAT much to their poker players.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]

FWIW - the rake at the Bellagio is worse than at Party....plus you are pretty much obligated to tip after a won hand. And they don't really give THAT much to their poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't I was just making a point as if I was a blackjack player or somthing. I am a whale in terms of money I pay in rake and will try to ge compensated for my play,

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care how much they make...only how much I can make.
If Party's rake-structure and/or rake-back situation is worse BUT I can still make better money there then I will play there.


FWIW - the rake at the Bellagio is worse than at Party....plus you are pretty much obligated to tip after a won hand. And they don't really give THAT much to their poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this... However, the message from the OP is clear. Could you guys imagine what party would be like if they treated their players well? A few small reload bonuses every month, rakeback, and support that can speak english (as well as other languages)... they would dominate the market. It will be interesting in a year or two to see who the big poker site is. Granny just posted in the Zoo a pic that shows stars has as many players as party does right now, and numbers at the 'smaller' sites (like ub / absolute) have been up over the last month. It is great to see people who actually care about their customers starting to get more business.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this... However, the message from the OP is clear. Could you guys imagine what party would be like if they treated their players well? A few small reload bonuses every month, rakeback, and support that can speak english (as well as other languages)... they would dominate the market. It will be interesting in a year or two to see who the big poker site is. Granny just posted in the Zoo a pic that shows stars has as many players as party does right now, and numbers at the 'smaller' sites (like ub / absolute) have been up over the last month. It is great to see people who actually care about their customers starting to get more business.

[/ QUOTE ]

what he said.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't care how much they make...only how much I can make.
If Party's rake-structure and/or rake-back situation is worse BUT I can still make better money there then I will play there.


FWIW - the rake at the Bellagio is worse than at Party....plus you are pretty much obligated to tip after a won hand. And they don't really give THAT much to their poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this... However, the message from the OP is clear. Could you guys imagine what party would be like if they treated their players well? A few small reload bonuses every month, rakeback, and support that can speak english (as well as other languages)... they would dominate the market. It will be interesting in a year or two to see who the big poker site is. Granny just posted in the Zoo a pic that shows stars has as many players as party does right now, and numbers at the 'smaller' sites (like ub / absolute) have been up over the last month. It is great to see people who actually care about their customers starting to get more business.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I think Party is doing pretty well how it is operating right now. Can you say $9bil public offering?

Players just don't understand why rakeback is bad for the site. They only think about how it effects them (the player) and not how it effects the site. I won't go into all the reasons, but obviously the 3 biggest sites don't allow RB and most of the terd sites do. There's a reason for that. Can't believe the moderators of this site say otherwise.

Enlighten me
 

I must be confused. Aren't the players complaining about the Party split, players that got rakeback at skins? If so, how does no longer playing at the skins hurt Party that much? I know they get something from the skins for your play but I assume most of the rake goes to the skin. Maybe that's a false assumption. Also, without the fish at the skins, the value of rakeback drop so Party will gain players attracted by the fish. I don't see how Party loses in this. What am I missing?

Re: Enlighten me
 

they dont lose... and im not telling them how to run their business. however, a lot of players get pissed off and move to other sites.

i am not saying these players have a right (or dont have a right) to be pissed off... the bottom line is a few unhappy customers are going to talk a lot of smack about the site. it never hurts to keep everyone happy.

-ryan

Re: Enlighten me
 

However, offering rakeback would certain non-players (who are quite important to Party) very unhappy.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

In case dikshit does read this:

I played 43k hands last month and none were through my party account. I made over $2000 in bonuses at other sites. Your offer to me was an insult. The other sites each had at least 2 people at almost every table that were former players on your skins. Did you see the growth at Absolute, UltimateBet, Pokerroom, etc last month?

Thank you for introducing competition back into online poker. Over the last month, the break up has been very very good for me as a player. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is great to see people who actually care about their customers

[/ QUOTE ]

Many sites have much to do in this area before they can boast about it... even the examples you mentioned...

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

what about these numbers..

Affiliate B has brought 1,000 players to Party. If RB is offered, he will no longer waste his time with Party and will bring them no more players.

Player A brings in $20,000 a year in rake. He hates the fact that there is no RB, but he and 75k other people obviously play the site anyway.

Do you offer rakeback and run off all your affiliates or do you make the player happy? Now remember, that player brings you rake, but 90% of the players out there don't bring the room 1 other player.

Very true
 

[ QUOTE ]
I used to 8 table 10-20 6max and pay about 30k in rake every month. I now 1 table 1000 nl. usualy not on your site. i may end up paying less than 4k. You and your company are making a bad long term move. I play a lot of live poker. I bad mouth you guys as much as I can to any and eveyone who will listen. If I win a big tournement I will make it my platform to educate everyone about how impotant the rake is. I will mention rakeback in every interview i give. I am just one person but in fighting a big monopoly like you it has to start somewere. If I can make only one person a day leave your site then I am happy. Maybee it dose not hurt you that much but you already lost 20k a month from me. If I gave this much action in bellagio I would expect a lot. Only a chump would give all that action for nothing. Way to chase away your best customers. I hate you. Thats all.

P.S. If the majority of people are so dumb they will pay tens of thousands of dollars a month to play a game then kuddos to you. You need to give something SUBSANTIAL to your best customers that know the value of their dollar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way too few high volume players are thinking like this. Instead many are thankful for the small crumbs that Party offer.

You guys don't know your worth. You ought to make more noise.

I left Party a few days ago because I don't feel they value me as a customer enough compared to my worth to them. There are other sites out there that offer me a package that is way better than what Party is offering.

Those who say they choose Party because of the fish concentration cannot have played much outsite of Party. That rumor might have been true in the past but there are now many other sites out there that are just as good or better (except for the former skins). It also seems to me there are less 2+2'ers at other sites.

It also feels good to me to be playing at sites that understand what service is. Sites that actually respond when you try to communicate with them.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
the rake at the Bellagio is worse than at Party

[/ QUOTE ]

How much of the rake pays their overhead and how much is profit?

B&M - 80% of the rake pays their costs for running the game, 20% profit.

Online - .008% of the rake pays their costs for running the game, 99.992% profit

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Online - .008% of the rake pays their costs for running the game, 99.992% profit



[/ QUOTE ]
You are way off. Just look at any of the publicly available information on any of the exchange listed sites and you can get a better idea of the costs.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are way off. Just look at any of the publicly available information on any of the exchange listed sites and you can get a better idea of the costs.


[/ QUOTE ]

I may have exaggerated to emphasize the point that there is a significant difference between the percentage of rake that is profit for B&M as opposed to online.

Sorry you missed that.

Perhaps you can supply a link that identifies B&M pokerrooms that make annual profits in the multimillions?

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

Hey dikshit, if you are reading this (or Lee Jones) why not offer very high volume players something good. Like capping their rake at 10k a month or something. Or do you feel like 120k is not a lot to make off a person in one year. It would motivate people to play alot on your site and shut down the everyone else. You would probably make more in the long run because some who do not play that much now would play more. WTF can I get something for the half million a year almost i generate in rake? It must really be a sellers market but why does nobody want my action at a resonable price?

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Like capping their rake at 10k a month or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

great idea, but high volume players would start sharing accounts and running them 24/7.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Like capping their rake at 10k a month or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

great idea, but high volume players would start sharing accounts and running them 24/7.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think this would be a great benefit to high volume players. And I wouldn't share accounts. (It wouldn't be too difficult to spot multiple users anyway)

Krishan

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Like capping their rake at 10k a month or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

great idea, but high volume players would start sharing accounts and running them 24/7.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think this would be a great benefit to high volume players. And I wouldn't share accounts. (It wouldn't be too difficult to spot multiple users anyway)

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

it would be pretty damn easy for ten of us to get together and end up only paying 5k/each for the month without any fear of getting caught. don't you think?


Like I said, I think it's a terrific idea and I would love it, just dont think it makes much sense for them.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

Why would any business, cap the revenue that they can make from their best customers.

Larger discounts for high volume, yes... A complete cap, that would be silly [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
it would be pretty damn easy for ten of us to get together and end up only paying 5k/each for the month without any fear of getting caught. don't you think?



[/ QUOTE ]

they could make a rule that you could only play the account from one location. Pretty easy to check. 10k a month from an account is pretty good. What kind of services could you get for 10k.

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, I think it's a terrific idea and I would love it, just dont think it makes much sense for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

They get 10k in rake from me instead on 4k if I 1 or 2 table a higher limit, have a higher win rate and play in NL where I will bust fish faster. With a cap they would get more money from me plus I will help generate rake for the site by playing in up to 8 games. Why is that not good for them when I would never 8 table with a 3 dollar rake sh. w/o some sort or rake discount.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

How come you guys never bash Poker Stars and Lee Jones? If you think Party Poker is milking you guys, what about Poker Stars? No chance in hell for rakeback on that site. Quit asking for something you are not entitled to.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

I don't bash either but as a guess:

- lower rake
- actual customer service
- better rewards system
- non-expiring reload bonuses

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care how much they make...only how much I can make.
If Party's rake-structure and/or rake-back situation is worse BUT I can still make better money there then I will play there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's exactly this attitude that will maintin the status quo.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]

How come you guys never bash Poker Stars and Lee Jones? If you think Party Poker is milking you guys, what about Poker Stars? No chance in hell for rakeback on that site. Quit asking for something you are not entitled to.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok lets look at what PS does better than PP
1. Customer Support. Trying to get help from Party is like trying to push down a brick wall by running into it head first.

2. Rake, First Party doesn't like the idea of rakeback. Second, Parties rake is much higher than Stars.

3. Software, PS software is much better IMO.

4. PS actually listens to the advice of 2+2ers.


Melch

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

How come you guys never bash Poker Stars and Lee Jones? If you think Party Poker is milking you guys, what about Poker Stars? No chance in hell for rakeback on that site. Quit asking for something you are not entitled to.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok lets look at what PS does better than PP
1. Customer Support. Trying to get help from Party is like trying to push down a brick wall by running into it head first.

2. Rake, First Party doesn't like the idea of rakeback. Second, Parties rake is much higher than Stars.

3. Software, PS software is much better IMO.

4. PS actually listens to the advice of 2+2ers.


Melch

[/ QUOTE ]

So if Party Poker had lower rake and better customer service, you guys would stop asking for rake back? I doubt that. You guys got used to something that taken away. I would be upset too, but it is not Party's fault.

Also, regarding Poker Stars rake. All of their tables are 9 handed whereas Party Poker has 10 handed tables. What effect does this have on the rake? 90 players on Poker Stars would equate to 10 tables and 90 players on Party Poker would equate to 9 tables. Did you guys factor this into the rake calculations? Poker Stars gets to squeeze in an extra table and make that extra rake.

Re: hey dikshit read this...
 

[ QUOTE ]

So if Party Poker had lower rake and better customer service, you guys would stop asking for rake back? I doubt that. You guys got used to something that taken away. I would be upset too, but it is not Party's fault.

Also, regarding Poker Stars rake. All of their tables are 9 handed whereas Party Poker has 10 handed tables. What effect does this have on the rake? 90 players on Poker Stars would equate to 10 tables and 90 players on Party Poker would equate to 9 tables. Did you guys factor this into the rake calculations? Poker Stars gets to squeeze in an extra table and make that extra rake.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, people will still ask for rakeback. You do have something wrong though, Stars has 10 handed limit tables