Fold bottom set here?.....
 

My read on villain in this hand was that he was very good, I considered him the best player at the table. He was very tight/agg and had shown down good hands each time. I had 200 hands on him and he was 21/8....

Does anyone like this fold? If you don't fold, please tell me what you are putting him on to be reraising here. I didn't think there was anyway he limped with k/3 or k/2 and if he did he's not going to reraise it here I didn't think. Also he wouldnt be dumb enough to reraise KQ or KJ here and would def raise AK pf I thought. What do you guys think?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

BB ($89.09)
UTG ($146.77)
MP ($270)
Hero ($109.80)
SB ($33.45)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, Hero calls $1, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($5) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font>, SB folds, BB calls $15, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $50</font>, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: $85

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. MP wins $85. </font>

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

Python,

Post in small stakes.
Raise to $20
Always pay off bigger sets.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

Oh, I didn't know what was considered small or medium stakes, I usually play 200 or 400 nl but dropped to try and plug leaks.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

Python,

Post all 200 here.

100 in small.

Continue to pay off over sets.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

If you've never seen him make this move with Ad4d then this is a clear fold. Generally I want to see this move (on somebody else) before I'll suspect he's taking advantage of his image. If he's on your right you'll have better opportunities to get his money. Does he see you as weak-tiet?

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

On a rainbow board I'd feel a lot less bad about folding here.

But your read on him seems pretty specific that he's only reraising you with 33, so I don't know why you bothered posting.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
My read on villain in this hand was that he was very good

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok so, good hands are K's, AK, KQ, KJ?, AQ,AJ, Axs?, mid pair etc 3's?(guess limping is a good play). All of the above except mid pair and 3's are raising hands. He didn't raise, maybe he doesn't raise AK or KJ I don't know, if he has K's and didn't raise on the flop I'd be surprised. If I had top pair with this flop I'd bet because the 23 would make a straight possible. Anyhow, ad5d makes you a 67% favorite that's probably the worst hand you're up against a5o is a 83% underdog, against a set I think he slow plays. I'd call and I'd go all in here, or reraise, get the money in the pot so he can't change his mind if his card doesn't hit. Seems like everyone in this forum wants to folds sets, at least wait until a flush or straight is on the board before folding and even then try to check-call it down.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

his hands are basically 33 or draws, of which there are several: A4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 45[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Ax[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He may also take your PF limp as a weak K, and is betting with KQ, but that is very doubtful.

However, with at least 4-5 combinations of cards that would fit that betting behaviour, and only 1 of them beats you, I would favor staying in the hand.

Personally, seeing as you have position. I would call and re-evaluate on a non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn. If a diamond comes, your decision is easy, and you save half your stack. If a non-diamond comes, you're in the same position, but with only 1 card to come. (In which case I'd take the oppotunity to push, and take my 80%+ chance with any holding other than 33)

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, seeing as you have position. I would call and re-evaluate on a non- turn. If a diamond comes, your decision is easy, and you save half your stack. If a non-diamond comes, you're in the same position, but with only 1 card to come. (In which case I'd take the oppotunity to push, and take my 80%+ chance with any holding other than 33)

[/ QUOTE ]
IMO, if he's on a diamond draw and he sees a non diamond he will fold vs going in gives him a chance, it may save him half his stack.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

But we don't know what he's on yet, so isn't it in our best interests to keep the pot as low as possible until we can figure that out?

Not telling, I'm asking.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

pushhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

There is no such thing as a clear fold with a set on this type flop.

I play for my stack here with no regrets.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
But we don't know what he's on yet, so isn't it in our best interests to keep the pot as low as possible until we can figure that out?

Not telling, I'm asking.

[/ QUOTE ]

In your last post, you put him on a range of hands. I think that that range was too narrow (4d5d, Ad3d, KQ, ect), but I think we are way ahead of his range here. He should push here, especially with the effective stack sizes. At the very least he should call here, but that could allow a big draw to get away from his hand cheap.

For the record, the hero made similar weak-tight lay downs like this before, then the villian made a great play if he had a flush draw.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

Calling off half your stack on the flop with any plans of folding the turn is terrible.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

You said the villain is a very good, someone who is very good is not a nitty nut-peddler, so play for your stack.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

Sorry for the confusion.

When I said very good, I was just saying he wasn't REALLY bad like most of the players that were at the table. He seemed to be playing very tight/agg and had shown down big hands each time. At the time this hand took place and as tight as he had been playing, that's the reason I just automatically felt that he had to have the set here since I couldn't see him making this play with any other hand. I hadn't put in a raise like this so far that he'd seen which is why for him to reraise here I felt he had to be very confident in his hand. I didn't think he'd want to continue pumping the pot on just a flush draw when I hadn't given him a reason to think i'm not very strong here.

Looking back now i'm thinking a push is a possible option. At the time though I just felt very strongly he definitely was not doing this without the set of 3s given how i'd seen him play. It would be like imagining the table rock at the table reraising you in this spot.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I didn't know what was considered small or medium stakes, I usually play 200 or 400 nl but dropped to try and plug leaks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are making this fold on a regular basis.. it's a big [censored] leak.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

I rarely ever fold bottom set like this which is the reason I posted this. I was just wondering if based on the read in this hand if this was an exception in which it was correct.

Re: Fold bottom set here?.....
 

I have no problem dumping bottom set in a limped pot, if conditions are right. Usually that means pot being jammed by two players at least one of whom is competent in front of me, or if board is extremely scary. Here, you probably have to payee thayt mayn.