Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB <font color="green">(33/14/2.3(215))</font> calls.

Flop: (4 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks intending to call

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

Are you check/folding the turn barring a Q, T, or 8?

I think it is ok.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

I think this is is good sir. I think betting the turn is going to result in you putting in 2 bets too often compared to the amount of times you get a fold so I like check. River I think he's got random 56o or a splitting Q often enough.

EDIT: Upon reflection I'm not so sure about the river. I think any pair is usually checking behind.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

I could be persuaded to valuebet the river. I think most/all worse hands check behind with the risk of the lone-A straight, which looms large in your range of hands. You won't get raised by worse hands often, either.

Surf

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

[ QUOTE ]
I could be persuaded to valuebet the river.

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uhhh... thats not called a value bet, its callwed bluffing.
i dont like paying off this river.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

I'd check intending to fold.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

i would bet. villain is in calldown mode. if he had a good hand you woulda heard about it on the turn. bet and expect to see a pair of ts or lower.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would bet. villain is in calldown mode. if he had a good hand you woulda heard about it on the turn. bet and expect to see a pair of ts or lower.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turn: (3 BB) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Your kidding, right?

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would bet. villain is in calldown mode. if he had a good hand you woulda heard about it on the turn. bet and expect to see a pair of ts or lower.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turn: (3 BB) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Your kidding, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

i shoulda been. ok, i dont fold.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

I think it's a check/fold. When he bets the river, he either has you crushed or it's a complete bluff. I don't think he has air very often at all.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Upon reflection I'm not so sure about the river. I think any pair is usually checking behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
So do you also go with check/fold?

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

yea I now think that is best

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

Why not semibluff the turn? Having checked I guess the call is OK. The one-card OESD on a paired board isn't enough effective outs IMO, but you get a little extra EV from checkfolding the river and winning either unimproved or with a spiked pair.

Checkfold the river. The key point is that it is pretty clear to value bet any king, jack, or straight after you check the turn and river. With so many hands value betting the occasional bluff will be drowned out. There won't be one bluff for every six value bets even if he is bluffing most of his worse hands. Of course most of his worse hands are tens or underpairs and he's not apt to bluff those anyway.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

tough one. on one hand, i don't think he's going to value bet very well here, but on the other i dont see him bluffing much. maybe he had a small pair and will bluff. i guess you can call just because it's a tough board to value bet there. your play is completely in line with Ax going for a donk river c/r

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

I think I would have followed through on the turn since the straight draw gives me enough outs I'm calling anyway. If he raises the turn, that bites, but at least you know you can fold UI on the river or go for a c/r if you hit your straight.

The villian's turn bet doesn't mean much given many aggressive players will bet with air when it's checked to them in an attempt to pick up the pot. The river is hard. I wouldn't be suprised if he bluffs 1/6th of the time, making a check/call worthwhile, simply because I probably bluff 1/6th of the time when the original leader showed aggression and then let the lead go.

I think bet/fold will net you less than check/call because given the board I see him calling a smaller range of hands than he'll bet due to the chance he'll bluff.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #8182910291129.3
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would have followed through on the turn since the straight draw gives me enough outs I'm calling anyway. If he raises the turn, that bites, but at least you know you can fold UI on the river or go for a c/r if you hit your straight.

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I thought that against a guy with these stats, I was getting raised on the turn here very, very often. No?