I believe in Santa Claus
 

When I was a child I was taught to believe in Santa Claus. I understood this to mean that a man named Santa Claus lived at the North Pole and gave presents to kids on Christmas. I was sorely disapointed when I discovered that this understanding was flawed. I was especially disapointed to think that my parents had lied to me. Yet today I believe in Santa Claus and I don't think my parents lied to me. If David were to apply his probability arguments to my belief in Santa Claus I would have to laugh at his naivete.

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

What occured between your childhood and now that has renewed your believe in the big man?

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

I grew up?

I can just see David now, hounding some poor little 3 year old kid with arguments like, "how can you believe Santa travels all over the world in one night in a sleigh pulled by reindeer? Don't you know the odds against that are a gazillion to one?"

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
I grew up?

I can just see David now, hounding some poor little 3 year old kid with arguments like, "how can you believe Santa travels all over the world in one night in a sleigh pulled by reindeer? Don't you know the odds against that are a gazillion to one?"
PairTheBoard

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I could see him doing that to an adult, not a child though.

Is there a point to this thread? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a point to this thread? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the point is that David seems to be debating logically against people whose beliefs don't rely on logic. Theoretically he may have the most correct arguments, but they will only be compelling to those who already agreed with those arguments in the first place. Those who don't believe in David's reasoning won't find any reason to accept anything David says as logically sound, therefore his arguments, as correct as they may be, are inherently pointless given the audience.

It's like the concept of betting on the end in poker. Putting as much money in the pot as you can when you are 100% to win it may be theoretically correct, but often checking it through is more correct in the practical sense, when betting will accomplish nothing against those who are in fact the losers of the hand.

Or it's like when a helicopter pilot tries to explain to you why the flight controls are set up as they are by using the term "gyroscopic procession" but then goes on to explain a concept that is not even close to gyroscopic procession. Sure, I could try to explain how gyroscopic procession actually works and its application on a helicopter, but it's obvious this guy is not thinking in terms of physics, but only what he was taught in flight school, so instead I just smile and nod.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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I think the point is that David seems to be debating logically against people whose beliefs don't rely on logic.

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Or - in the words of St. Thomas Aquinas "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible."

The words 'faith' and 'belief' tend to indicate a position that is not amenable to logical arguement.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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Yet today I believe in Santa Claus and I don't think my parents lied to me.

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Just like SOME OF the people Sklansky argues against today, you either say that you believe in something that you really don't, OR you completely lack the ability to reason logically.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]

Or - in the words of St. Thomas Aquinas "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible."

The words 'faith' and 'belief' tend to indicate a position that is not amenable to logical arguement.

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Ahh the power of context. Lets not forget that St Thomas Acquinas very much believed that much of religion could be supported with rational reasoning.

Of course one of the problems with David's assertion is that many of history's greatest minds have been strongly religious. I am sure they had the ability to evaluate evidence rationally, esp. given one of the people I am thinking of formulated the laws of motion.

People that think there is no evidence pointing towards the existence of God and the truth of Christianity are the ones that are truly believing in something foolish.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

einbert:"Just like SOME OF the people Sklansky argues against today, you either say that you believe in something that you really don't, OR you completely lack the ability to reason logically. "

Exactly Wrong. And very on point in your wrongness. When I say I believe in Santa Claus I'm not lying. I DO believe in Santa Claus. Do I believe like a 3 year old child believes. Well, yes and no. If an exhastive expedition were sent to the North Pole do I think Santa would be found? No. But I do go along with the Santaology which says Santa lives at the North Pole. It's not central to my belief in Santa but I can go along with it. If you say I am either being illogical or lying you are wrong. You just don't get it.

I wouldn't raise my belief in Santa to the level of Faith but it's similiar. And when it comes to matters of faith there are many adults who understand their faith like the 3 year old kid understands Santa. David is like the 9 year old kid who wants to argue with the 3 year old kid.

Here's the thing. Matters of Faith involve, for lack of a better word, METAPHYSICAL concepts; like God, the Word of God, the Son of God, the Emaculate Conception, etc. Whatever a person's understanding of these concepts, from the point of view of the faithful, the important thing is that it brings them to the faith. If a person's understanding is from a mundane perspective, the Church does not discourage it. David does. When he does he is simply out of his depth.

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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People that think there is no evidence pointing towards the existence of God and the truth of Christianity are the ones that are truly believing in something foolish.

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Not IMO - the foolish ones are the people who base their entire lives on evidence that, frankly, wouldn't sell me a secondhand car.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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People that think there is no evidence pointing towards the existence of God and the truth of Christianity are the ones that are truly believing in something foolish.

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Not IMO - the foolish ones are the people who base their entire lives on evidence that, frankly, wouldn't sell me a secondhand car.

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You can twist all you want but there are strong rational reasons for the existence of God and the truth of Christianity. To ignore that evidence or try to dismiss it out of hand without doing a true evaluation shows the real follower of blind faith.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

imo, every Christian should read the works of Hans Kung, especially his book, "On Being a Christian". It's also worth reading by people who argue against Christianity. It's an eye opener. Kung was highly influencial during the Second Vatican Council lead by Pope John. His works were taught in Catholic Seminaries until later in his life when he came out with "On the Infallibility of the Pope". The Church couldn't swallow that one.

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
einbert:"Just like SOME OF the people Sklansky argues against today, you either say that you believe in something that you really don't, OR you completely lack the ability to reason logically. "

Exactly Wrong. And very on point in your wrongness. When I say I believe in Santa Claus I'm not lying. I DO believe in Santa Claus. Do I believe like a 3 year old child believes. Well, yes and no. If an exhastive expedition were sent to the North Pole do I think Santa would be found? No. But I do go along with the Santaology which says Santa lives at the North Pole. It's not central to my belief in Santa but I can go along with it. If you say I am either being illogical or lying you are wrong. You just don't get it.


[/ QUOTE ]

From what you have said you don't believe in Santa like a 3 year old. A 3 year old would believe that an expedition to the north pole would find santa, as well as that presents will appear under the tree because of santa. If you felt the same your family would have no presents, and you would be a very bad parent to ruin christmas for your family.

As for him being wrong, you haven't shown any reasoning as to why he is wrong. You have just stated that he is wrong. That isn't a valid refutation.

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I wouldn't raise my belief in Santa to the level of Faith but it's similiar. And when it comes to matters of faith there are many adults who understand their faith like the 3 year old kid understands Santa. David is like the 9 year old kid who wants to argue with the 3 year old kid.

Here's the thing. Matters of Faith involve, for lack of a better word, METAPHYSICAL concepts; like God, the Word of God, the Son of God, the Emaculate Conception, etc. Whatever a person's understanding of these concepts, from the point of view of the faithful, the important thing is that it brings them to the faith. If a person's understanding is from a mundane perspective, the Church does not discourage it. David does. When he does he is simply out of his depth.

PairTheBoard

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I agree with david. There are good reasons to believe in god and your religion I am sure, but blind faith is very troublesome. Many people rely on their religion to tell them what is morally correct, and this can cause big problems. A clear example of this would be islamic extremists who interpret the koran in a way that leads to terrorists activities. A 3 year old who believe's in santa doesn't harm anyone, but when other peoples actions and decisions have a big influence on other peoples lives, they have a moral responsiblity to make informed, rational decisions. Blindly following a religion or anything for that matter is an obstruction in reason, and is a bad thing.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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When I say I believe in Santa Claus I'm not lying. I DO believe in Santa Claus.

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Okay.
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If an exhastive expedition were sent to the North Pole do I think Santa would be found? No.

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Oh, so I guess you think he lives in the South pole?

Wait a second, I get it. You really DON'T believe in Santa Claus, you just felt like claiming that you did for whatever reason. Okay, I get it now.

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And when it comes to matters of faith there are many adults who understand their faith like the 3 year old kid understands Santa.

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I understand that faith is not based on logical reasoning. Belief in a specific God is usually not based on logical reasoning either.

However, by claiming to believe in Santa Claus you are basically being as contrarian to logical reasoning as you possibly can be. There's a huge difference between a belief in something that's not logical but MIGHT exist (the Christain God) and something that's not logical and it's pretty easy for a logically thinking person to see that it doesn't exist (Santa Claus).

[ QUOTE ]
Matters of Faith involve, for lack of a better word, METAPHYSICAL concepts; like God, the Word of God, the Son of God, the Emaculate Conception, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, it's immaculate. You should learn your own faith a little better--that's one of the principle foundations of your faith and you can't even spell it correctly?

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metaphysical- beyond what is perceptible to the sense

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I think that's the definition you were referring to. And fine, belief in God can go beyond the senses (this includes logical, rational, empirical thinking in my opinion). But there is a difference between going beyond empiricism and simply spitting in empiricism's face. The difference is as key as the difference between stating "the big bang might not have happened" (which is a very real possibility) and "evolution does not occur in biological life forms" (which is definitely not a possibility, you can see this by examining the scientific evidence). Belief in God is not specifically supported by empirical thinking, but the absence of a God isn't really supported by it either. However, the existence of Santa Claus is something that logic can easily put away as being not true.

Logic can't disprove the Immaculate conception, it can't disprove that Jesus was the son of God, it can't disprove that he was crucified and was resurrected after three days. It doesn't necessarily support these concepts, but it certainly can't disprove them. It can, however, prove that there isn't a Santa Claus. This is a big distinction.

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If a person's understanding is from a mundane perspective, the Church does not discourage it.

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I feel the Church should. If someone wants to participate in something like a religion, they should at least try to understand the important concepts behind that religion. But if you would prefer to simply claim to belong to a given religion without investigating its foundations and principles, that's your own choice. I don't think the church should encourage this kind of thinking, but more membership implies more money so it's easy to see why they would.

It's obvious you're just blatantly exaggerating to the point of getting attention or starting a fight. We both know you don't really believe in Santa Claus, it's obvious from the context of your last post.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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there are strong rational reasons for the [...] truth of Christianity.

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I believe this statement to be very untrue--please elaborate.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there are strong rational reasons for the [...] truth of Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe this statement to be very untrue--please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

Quoted by einbert:
PTB: "When I say I believe in Santa Claus I'm not lying. I DO believe in Santa Claus.

Einbert:"Okay."

Quoted by einbert:
PTB:"If an exhastive expedition were sent to the North Pole do I think Santa would be found? No."


Einbert: "Oh, so I guess you think he lives in the South pole?

Wait a second, I get it. You really DON'T believe in Santa Claus, you just felt like claiming that you did for whatever reason. Okay, I get it now."

Either you didn't read carefully or purposely chose to ignore the sentences I wrote immediately following the one you just quoted, where I said that I went along with the Santaology which says Santa lives at the North Pole. The fact that an expedition would not find him does not disuade by belief in Santa any more than the lame observation by the Soviets that they couldn't find god in outer space disuaded believers in god. You just don't get what it means to have a mature belief in Santa.

You have also become argumentative and abrasive.


Quoted by einbert:
PTB: "And when it comes to matters of faith there are many adults who understand their faith like the 3 year old kid understands Santa."

einbert: "I understand that faith is not based on logical reasoning. Belief in a specific God is usually not based on logical reasoning either.

However, by claiming to believe in Santa Claus you are basically being as contrarian to logical reasoning as you possibly can be. There's a huge difference between a belief in something that's not logical but MIGHT exist (the Christain God) and something that's not logical and it's pretty easy for a logically thinking person to see that it doesn't exist (Santa Claus)."

I am not at all being contrarian to logical reasoning by believing in Santa. That is exactly the point of this thread. My belief in Santa is born out of a spirit of whimsy. Whimsy is neither logical nor illogical. It's whimsy. And, my rational mind tells me that this belief is a good thing. It stimulates all sorts of child like good will and generousity within me. I like it. I will even prosylatize a little and encourage you to endulge in a little whimsy and believe along with the rest of us Santa believers. Take a spin outside your logic box. You might enjoy it.

Faith in a religion like Christianity touches much deeper chords than the whimsical of course. Take a read of the book, "On Being a Christian" that I mention in another post. You will find your logical arguments are about 100 years out of date.

Quoted by einbert:
PTB:"Matters of Faith involve, for lack of a better word, METAPHYSICAL concepts; like God, the Word of God, the Son of God, the Emaculate Conception, etc."

einbert: "First of all, it's immaculate. You should learn your own faith a little better--that's one of the principle foundations of your faith and you can't even spell it correctly?"

Now you're just being an ass. That's the cheapest shot in the book. And I'm not claiming Christianity as my faith. I'm acting as Christianity's Advocate here. If the devil deserves one certainly Christianity is entitled as well.

Quoted by einbert from a dictionary I assume:
"metaphysical- beyond what is perceptible to the sense"


einbert:"I think that's the definition you were referring to. And fine, belief in God can go beyond the senses (this includes logical, rational, empirical thinking in my opinion). But there is a difference between going beyond empiricism and simply spitting in empiricism's face. The difference is as key as the difference between stating "the big bang might not have happened" (which is a very real possibility) and "evolution does not occur in biological life forms" (which is definitely not a possibility, you can see this by examining the scientific evidence). Belief in God is not specifically supported by empirical thinking, but the absence of a God isn't really supported by it either. However, the existence of Santa Claus is something that logic can easily put away as being not true.

Logic can't disprove the Immaculate conception, it can't disprove that Jesus was the son of God, it can't disprove that he was crucified and was resurrected after three days. It doesn't necessarily support these concepts, but it certainly can't disprove them. It can, however, prove that there isn't a Santa Claus. This is a big distinction."

Not at all. As I mention above Santa is a Whimsical Concept much like God is for lack of a better word a Metaphysical Concept. In your dictionary quote on the meaning of "Metaphysical" it mentions "the senses". To be more specific, I believe it is talking about the 5 senses along with sensing devices produced by science. That does not mean that the metaphysical cannot be sensed by human beings. We possess possibly infitely many ways of sensing or experiencing reality. The sense of Awe. The sense of Beauty. The sense of Truth beyond logic. The sense of Whimsy if you will. The sense of spirituality.

Once you start talking about God you are in the realm of the Metaphysical. All discusion thereafter is essentially metaphysical. When you say God is All Powerful, "All Powerfull" becomes a metaphysical concept. To attack it with mundane logic is as silly as your attack on my whimsical belief in Santa - he's not logical. Really.

"The Son of God" and the "Immaculate Conception" are metaphysical concepts. To attack them from the mundane by assuming they must mean that God magically inseminated Mary is just as silly. Of course there are Christians who insist that this is what they mean. You can attack them if you like. Or you could take a more mature enlightened view by informing yourself of the Big Picture of Christianity by studying the Modern Theology that has been developed over the last 100 years. Maybe you don't like their arrogance. Maybe you should take a look at your own. Maybe you should treat them like you treat a 3 year old child who exitedly tells you all about Santa. Give them a few generations to grow in their understanding.

Unfortunately some of these Christian 3 year olds have gained political power in parts of the country and want to shove their naivety down my mature child's throat. I'm totally with you in opposing these people. But aside from that, why not let The Christian Church worry about the Christians in it?


Quoted by einbert:
PTB:"If a person's understanding is from a mundane perspective, the Church does not discourage it."


einbert:"I feel the Church should. If someone wants to participate in something like a religion, they should at least try to understand the important concepts behind that religion. But if you would prefer to simply claim to belong to a given religion without investigating its foundations and principles, that's your own choice. I don't think the church should encourage this kind of thinking, but more membership implies more money so it's easy to see why they would."

Maybe you should be the next Pope. For hundreds of years the mundane was practically the only way the vast majority of the faithful were capable of understanding their faith. This is still largely true today. Of course you don't care about the Faith. But the Church does. They consider it a matter of life and death. It was only 100 years ago, as a reaction to the Logical Positivism that was taking over Philosophical Thought that Modern Theology was dared to be attempted. Modern Theology was developed to allow modern thinking people like yourself access to the Faith. As was mentioned upon the Popes recent death; Christianity is still a young faith. That is if it is allowed to continue development into the future. Those who hang on to their mundane understanding of the Faith will always be embraced by the Church imo. But as time goes on I see the Fundamentalist who are yelling the loudest and getting the most attention as diminishing while the Moderns - who are perfectly compatible with your ways of thinking - will increase. Only time will tell of course. It may be the mundane will come to dominate in which case Chistianity will become like the "salt that has lost it's flavor" and slowy die out. jmo.



einbert:"It's obvious you're just blatantly exaggerating to the point of getting attention or starting a fight. We both know you don't really believe in Santa Claus, it's obvious from the context of your last post."

I think it's you who are itching for a fight. I don't want to give you one. And even if you can't believe in Santa the way I do I hope I have convinced you to at least believe that I believe.

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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there are strong rational reasons for the [...] truth of Christianity.

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I believe this statement to be very untrue--please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frankly, this forum isnt appropriate to that sort of sweeping discussion. Perhaps if there are certain parts of Christianity that you have objection to or you think are particularly weak, it might make it a more viable to discuss in these forums.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

PGarlic:"What occured between your childhood and now that has renewed your believe in the big man?"

Here's what happenned PGarlic. I'm not against giving presents. But I don't like the idea of being Forced to give presents. I especially dislike being forced to give presents because a comercialized culture hypes a certain day with the design to sell sell sell for the sake of Retailing Profits. So I adopted the policy of never giving presents on Christmas. I might give presents any day during the year that I felt moved to do so but I refused to give presents on Christmas. Well, one Christmas a certain family member's feelings were very badly hurt. Maybe my Grinch policy had caught on or something. I'm not sure. But she cried because she didn't get any present on Christmas. She was in her 80's at the time. I decided I needed to make a change. What I came up with was this. I still refused to give presents on Christmas. But what I did do on Christmas was deliver presents to my family from Santa. Lo and Behold I found that it was good Ho Ho Ho. I've been a believer in Santa ever since.

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
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there are strong rational reasons for the [...] truth of Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe this statement to be very untrue--please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frankly, this forum isnt appropriate to that sort of sweeping discussion. Perhaps if there are certain parts of Christianity that you have objection to or you think are particularly weak, it might make it a more viable to discuss in these forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it inappropriate?

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

I think somebody just got himself in waayy over his head. That's a hefty task you've invited, vulturesrow. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
there are strong rational reasons for the [...] truth of Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe this statement to be very untrue--please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frankly, this forum isnt appropriate to that sort of sweeping discussion. Perhaps if there are certain parts of Christianity that you have objection to or you think are particularly weak, it might make it a more viable to discuss in these forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it inappropriate?

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Frankly, Im not sure we cant give the topic justice in this setting, where cute little one liners seem to rule and people make superficial arguments . However I will assume a good faith offer is being made here. It would still be helpful to define a starting point. Suggestions?

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

I would suggest starting at the phrase Jesus emphasized repeatedly:

"My Kingdom is not of this World"

Followed by:

"The Kingdom of Heaven is upon you" or maybe "with you" or "amongst you".

Then the Golden Rule and Sermon on the Mount.

Something rarely mentioned is the fact that in Hebrew, God is a plural noun. What if the phrase "I Am" has been mistranslated all this time and should read "We Are"? Or "Our Kindom is not of this World". When asked if he is the Son of God, what if Jesus actually said, "We Are"?



PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

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You just don't get what it means to have a mature belief in Santa.

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If this is the best comparison that you can come up with to relate to people's beliefes in a god, than I don't think you know what it is to have a mature belief in anything related to the topic.

From what you are saying, You DON"T Believe in the existence of Santa. You DO Believe in the Ideals that it represents...

You believe in Santa as a Unitarian believes in the Catholic Eucharist. You Believe that Other People believe in IT, and you believe in it's ideals, so every 1st sunday of a month you'll break bread as well. but you Don't believe that that bread you (or the Roman Catholics) are breaking is the actual encarnation of the body of Christ.

your annalogy just sucks. relating a belief in Santa to a belief in a higher power is a travesty, and seems to either show a lack of thought put into the idea, a lack of understanding of what some people's faiths actualy are, or worst of all a lack of caring.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

I believe money grows on trees. I am not lying to you. I am not being illogical. If someone told me the odds against this are a zillion to one, it would be in naivete. If you say I am either lying or illogical, you are wrong. You just don't get it.

See, when I say "money" I really mean "leaves"! I believe leaves grow on trees!

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

Quoted by LittleFishy:
PTB: "You just don't get what it means to have a mature belief in Santa."

LF: "If this is the best comparison that you can come up with to relate to people's beliefes in a god, than I don't think you know what it is to have a mature belief in anything related to the topic."

You misunderstood my intention. This was meant to point out how myopic and closed minded people can be when it comes to someone believing in something in a way they never thought of. You evidently missed the point when I said this belief is born of a Whimsical Spirit while Religious Faith strikes much deeper chords. You are also being insulting.

LF: "From what you are saying, You DON"T Believe in the existence of Santa. You DO Believe in the Ideals that it represents... "

Not at all. That's your presumption lacking the perception of whimsy. I DO believe in the existence of Santa. Take a leap out of your logic box long enough to endulge a little whimsy and you might come to believe Santa exists as well.

LF: "You believe in Santa as a Unitarian believes in the Catholic Eucharist. You Believe that Other People believe in IT, and you believe in it's ideals, so every 1st sunday of a month you'll break bread as well. but you Don't believe that that bread you (or the Roman Catholics) are breaking is the actual encarnation of the body of Christ."

It's not just Unitarians, but most ALL Protestant Denominations - including Fundamentalists - do not believe in the Transmutation of Wine to Blood. Here's the thing though. If you talk to a Modernist Catholic Theologian - or I suspect most any Jesuit - even though they DO believe in the Transmutation of Wine to Blood I doubt they would argue that a scientific examination of the Eucharist would find blood in the cup. Maybe there's something about the way they believe that you don't understand. Much like you don't understand my whimsical belief in Santa. Exactly the point of this thread.

LF: "your annalogy just sucks. relating a belief in Santa to a belief in a higher power is a travesty, and seems to either show a lack of thought put into the idea, a lack of understanding of what some people's faiths actualy are, or worst of all a lack of caring."

That's your analogy not mine. But your lack of understanding of my belief in Santa and your hostility IS analogous to the lack of understanding and general intollerance some people have toward the Religious Beliefs of others. That's a lack of caring.

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

one day when my brother sister and I were little, my dad helped lead a field trip for my sisters class into a local woods... earlier in the day he had gone into the woods with a couple bags of gumdrops and stuck them all over a tree that he had picked out. He then led his group through the woods and showed them his magic gumdrop tree... as the story goes they were all amazed and estatic. I wonder if any of them became botanists in the hope of rediscovering such a tree...

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

With the price of Avocados what they are I've always thought of Money growing on Avocado Trees.

PTB

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe money grows on trees. I am not lying to you. I am not being illogical. If someone told me the odds against this are a zillion to one, it would be in naivete. If you say I am either lying or illogical, you are wrong. You just don't get it.

See, when I say "money" I really mean "leaves"! I believe leaves grow on trees!

[/ QUOTE ]

awesome. just truly awesome.

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

Why do you say "money" when you mean "leaves"?

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you say "money" when you mean "leaves"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say "Santa Claus" when you mean "the spirit of Christmas"?

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

Quoted by Reubenf:
PTB: "Why do you say "money" when you mean "leaves"?"

Reubenf: "Why do you say "Santa Claus" when you mean "the spirit of Christmas"?"

You're answering my question with a question. What does your answer mean? Was that the purpose of your post? To basically ask that question? Why didn't you just ask the question then? Why the need for the ridicule and scorn?

I say Santa because Santa is what I mean. You say money when you "mean" leaves. It's not analogous. When I say Santa that does not compute for you because you do not join in my Spirit of Whimsy. So YOU insist on "Santa" being translated into words that better fit YOUR understanding. But that's YOUR translation based on YOUR perspective locked inside your mundane logic box. When I see an Avocado Tree I DO see a money tree. That's poetic language. When I view the Picaso Abstract painted on the eve of WWII I see the Brutality of and Insanity of War. That's language of Art. When I deliver presents from Santa I'm delivering presents from Santa. That's whimsical language. When I say I believe in Santa I'm saying exactly what I mean. If I were to settle for the Translation you insist on Dictating to me it would not have the same meaning. Open your mind.

PairTheBoard

Re: I believe in Santa Claus
 

[ QUOTE ]
Something rarely mentioned is the fact that in Hebrew, God is a plural noun. What if the phrase "I Am" has been mistranslated all this time and should read "We Are"? Or "Our Kindom is not of this World". When asked if he is the Son of God, what if Jesus actually said, "We Are"?


[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO well put.

Thanks