This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a raise
 

10-20 NL on Party

OK, the last hand I raised to 70 and everyone folded. This hand I open limp 2 off the button with 66. The button makes it 125 and I call. We both have about 1725 before the hand.

Flop comes 332 2 suits...I check he bets 225 and I make it 700, planning on folding to a push

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

raise pf
the way u played it fold pf to the raise
flop is player dependent but i tend to check call those who dont fire 2nd barrels

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

So I can never open limp in MP in these games? I guess I can buy that. If I knew the guy didnt fire 2 barrels I would check call yes, didnt know that. Also arent I getting the price to flop a set?

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

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So I can never open limp in MP in these games?

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stop trying to make rules. there are no rules.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

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So I can never open limp in MP in these games? I guess I can buy that. If I knew the guy didnt fire 2 barrels I would check call yes, didnt know that. Also arent I getting the price to flop a set?

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Sure you can. Raising is usually better though because it builds a pot with a hand that can stand heat when it connects and it gives you a much better chance to win a pot(that is bigger since you raised) on the flop.
-James

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

Flop check-raise look OK to u? His overbet pre-flop made me think he was somewhat weak. Does that make sense?

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

it's a good bluff

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

Really I was bluffing? What better hand is he gonna fold? Maybe I really dont get this game. Isnt he gonna have 2 unpaired high cards a lot here?

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

its a bluff because your hand is basically the same as 27off. you sure you are +ev in this game? why not learn NL at smaller stakes?

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

right, but isn't the question how often he's going to call you with two unpaired high cards there? not very often, imo.

edit: occasionally it's good to make plays where you don't know if you are bluffing or not, usually then your opponents won't know either [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

I am not sure, but Id be pretty suprised if I am not. I understand the 27o concept, so yea I guess it is a "bluff"...but if I think my hand is good here enough to continue I am just supposed to check-call?

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

You make a very good (and I guess simple) point. So can u walk me through a better way to think about this type of hand?

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

turnipmonster is a good person to listen to as far as how to think about NL hands as you begin to establish a "default" gameplan. Your intuition regarding his preflop action is correct, and I think your line was an appropriate response to that information.
-James

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

first I would have to figure out why I open limped 2 off the button [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

edit: to clarify, I don't mind your play here at all, I just think that in this situation your hand strength is mostly irrelevant. he folds lots of hands to your cr and if you get called you should probably give it up most times barring a very special read.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

"first I would have to figure out why I open limped 2 off the button"

OK well if u cant get by that, then that is fine. I will have to try to find another situation where I think this same concept comes up. Thanks for your effort atleast Turnip, and stick with me I will learn!

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

it was (mostly) a joke [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

If he's really good, he can push over the top with anything because he knows you don't have a 3 or AA/KK/QQ a huge majority of the time. Still, I rarely check/fold this flop; I'll lead or checkraise most of the time. Anyway, your openlimp messed this whole thing up.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

edge pretty much nailed it in one clear post.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a raise
 

I think this is a great spot to lead/fold. If he has AK, you win a decent pot, if he doesn't, you're just behind and lose, but not a lot.

Lead/fold also sets up lead/re-raise on a set very nicely. I'd lead/fold this one pretty much every time.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

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So I can never open limp in MP in these games? I guess I can buy that. If I knew the guy didnt fire 2 barrels I would check call yes, didnt know that. Also arent I getting the price to flop a set?

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I'm going to warn you that what I'm going to suggest will be disagreed upon by the majority of successful players, but I've found that it works well for my style.

I limp a lot. With drawing hands like pocket pairs. My goal is to double up through these. I'll also limp in any position(even LP) with monsters, ready to raise big to anyone who tries to muscle me out preflop- when people see you break a few people doing this, they'll fear coming over the top of your limps a little more.

My goal is never to win small pots, but my style allows me to do so, as people see that I'm willing to lose small pots in order to break someone and it instills a healthy fear.

The disadvantage of such a style is that I'm often times put in difficult situations because since I didn't raise, I can't really put other people on hands postflop. Due to this, one must be very tight postflop in regards to laying down decent hands in order to play such a style.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

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I am not sure, but Id be pretty suprised if I am not. I understand the 27o concept, so yea I guess it is a "bluff"...but if I think my hand is good here enough to continue I am just supposed to check-call?

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FWIW, I fold this hand here. You're simply not going to win a big pot here, and 1/2 the deck is a scare card for you on the turn. Not an enviable situation. You called hoping to hit a set and win a huge pot- It didn't happen. Now fold and be done with it. Just my two cents.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

Assani, this is too weak tight for me man. Your described style doesn't figure to win many big pots like you say it does because everyone will pretty much know you mean business when you bet/raise/whatever and fold non monsters(ie too ABC). I pretty much agree with edge on this hand though, any decent player will push anything here knowing you don't have enough to call and it's just gonna bloat this thing up when you really don't need to. Personally, I like c/c and lead a non A/K turn. It will usually get the same result for a lot less, and I think this line makes it less likely for you to get bluffed off the pot.

Re: This line probably sucks, but I hate leading and folding to a rais
 

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Your described style doesn't figure to win many big pots like you say it does because everyone will pretty much know you mean business when you bet/raise/whatever and fold non monsters(ie too ABC).

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I'd be more inclined to agree with this is a live game than an online game where one rarely has time to gather much info on their ever changing opponents. As I said, I understand that most will disagree.