Did I overplay QQ?
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($7.85)
BB ($14.55)
UTG ($23.25)
MP ($26.20)
Hero ($26.10)
Button ($32.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $0.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG folds, MP calls $2.25.

Flop: ($6.60) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($14.60) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $5</font>, Hero raises All in.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

this is a tough one.. any reads on the villain?

i think id be pushing the flop with this hand.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

I re-raise the flop to see where I am at.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

Pushing the flop is bad... because this is SA/WB.

I'm confused on the turn as well.

Jeez. With no read, I think I min. raise the flop for info and play poker after that.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

Well if seems as if you played it like you have no idea nor care about what the other guy may or may not have....

If you're gonna play it like that, go all in after the flop.

Maybe you'll get lucky and they have JJ, 10-10, or A 9...

Your call is weird. What's the read on the other fella?? If he's a LAG, he probably interprets your call as weakness and is trying to bully you off...

It doesn't seem to me as if he has much of a hand... Maybe a set of 9's??

What's the read on the type of player he is?? that will help. if' he's tight, he's got the 9's (it's shorthanded).
If he's a loose donk, he's got underpair, A 9 (suited, maybe even not), AK, AQ, AJ, maybe a flush draw?

If he's loose, shorthanded, i'd be all in after that non-overcarded flop after committing so much pre-flop...

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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Pushing the flop is bad... because this is SA/WB.

I'm confused on the turn as well.

Jeez. With no read, I think I min. raise the flop for info and play poker after that.

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yeah.. either ahead or crushed.. just not a fun situation to be in.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

I like it. Sure you'll lose but this is a+EV bet.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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I like it. Sure you'll lose but this is a+EV bet.

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+EV on the flop... Not really on the turn... (my humble opinion).

Would you agree?

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

for the people who disagrees with my line, what would you rather do?
Push the flop feels the worse since you get the least from what you are ahead of and still loses everything to what you are behind. The only other line I can think of is c/c it down depending on the river bet and what comes, but that seems like an awfully weak way of playing it.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

Against a tighter player I put in a small raise in on the flop. Against a LAG I call.

You know what.. If villian is decent, I don't think you overplayed it. His turn bet is weak. He made a sizeable flop bet, the board got scarier on the turn and he made a small bet. Unless he has no clue about bet sizes, this bet protects nothing. It's a weak bluff or a downsized bet with a marginal hand. You are going all in with a pot-sized bet. A lot bad calls by draws and weaker pairs call you here.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

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you chase off draw-ers.... ?no?

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

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Listen, i'm assuming, by your sarcastic tone, that you think it's obvious i'm "uneducated" about EV.. Ok that's fine, but instead of making a lame sarcastic comment, JUST EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT +EV!!!!! DONT WASTE a post making a sarcastic comment... it serves no purpose on a forum that's supposed to be educational... sarcasm on this board is friggin annoying... friggin wise guy... get off your high horse and learn to discuss with people, in a MATURE way your opinions and views... I'll listen... and possibly stand corrected... But that's no way to hold a discussion... even if i am dead wrong... THan correct me... but seriously... don't be a smart mouth... it's pointless...

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

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you chase off draw-ers.... ?no?

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I'm assuming he's gonna go all in no matter what... If the move was to go all in, i'd think it's more +EV to go all in on the flop than on the turn... assuming he decided to choose either/or... of course, the 9 could mean nothing, so EV could remain the same (even if negative)...

BUt usually, as the board is lower, the % of calling hands goes down... and the 9 only increases the possibility of something he might have (it's higher)...

?no? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

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Listen, i'm assuming, by your sarcastic tone, that you think it's obvious i'm "uneducated" about EV.. Ok that's fine, but instead of making a lame sarcastic comment, JUST EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT +EV!!!!! DONT WASTE a post making a sarcastic comment... it serves no purpose on a forum that's supposed to be educational... sarcasm on this board is friggin annoying... friggin wise guy... get off your high horse and learn to discuss with people, in a MATURE way your opinions and views... I'll listen... and possibly stand corrected... But that's no way to hold a discussion... even if i am dead wrong... THan correct me... but seriously... don't be a smart mouth... it's pointless...

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i'm a bit on tilt... i'll view my/your comments again after tomorrow and maybe delete this... maybe i'm short-tempered tonite....

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen, i'm assuming, by your sarcastic tone, that you think it's obvious i'm "uneducated" about EV.. Ok that's fine, but instead of making a lame sarcastic comment, JUST EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT +EV!!!!! DONT WASTE a post making a sarcastic comment... it serves no purpose on a forum that's supposed to be educational... sarcasm on this board is friggin annoying... friggin wise guy... get off your high horse and learn to discuss with people, in a MATURE way your opinions and views... I'll listen... and possibly stand corrected... But that's no way to hold a discussion... even if i am dead wrong... THan correct me... but seriously... don't be a smart mouth... it's pointless...

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i'm a bit on tilt... i'll view my/your comments again after tomorrow and maybe delete this... maybe i'm short-tempered tonite....

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hehe.. i've noticed that you've been replying to your own posts throughout the night before anyone else can reply with an answer.. feeling ok? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen, i'm assuming, by your sarcastic tone, that you think it's obvious i'm "uneducated" about EV.. Ok that's fine, but instead of making a lame sarcastic comment, JUST EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT +EV!!!!! DONT WASTE a post making a sarcastic comment... it serves no purpose on a forum that's supposed to be educational... sarcasm on this board is friggin annoying... friggin wise guy... get off your high horse and learn to discuss with people, in a MATURE way your opinions and views... I'll listen... and possibly stand corrected... But that's no way to hold a discussion... even if i am dead wrong... THan correct me... but seriously... don't be a smart mouth... it's pointless...

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm a bit on tilt... i'll view my/your comments again after tomorrow and maybe delete this... maybe i'm short-tempered tonite....

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe.. i've noticed that you've been replying to your own posts throughout the night before anyone else can reply with an answer.. feeling ok? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I re-read what i've written... and realize i have something else to add... is that ok??

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen, i'm assuming, by your sarcastic tone, that you think it's obvious i'm "uneducated" about EV.. Ok that's fine, but instead of making a lame sarcastic comment, JUST EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT +EV!!!!! DONT WASTE a post making a sarcastic comment... it serves no purpose on a forum that's supposed to be educational... sarcasm on this board is friggin annoying... friggin wise guy... get off your high horse and learn to discuss with people, in a MATURE way your opinions and views... I'll listen... and possibly stand corrected... But that's no way to hold a discussion... even if i am dead wrong... THan correct me... but seriously... don't be a smart mouth... it's pointless...

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm a bit on tilt... i'll view my/your comments again after tomorrow and maybe delete this... maybe i'm short-tempered tonite....

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe.. i've noticed that you've been replying to your own posts throughout the night before anyone else can reply with an answer.. feeling ok? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I re-read what i've written... and realize i have something else to add... is that ok??

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YES ITS OK.. jeesh... attitude...

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen, i'm assuming, by your sarcastic tone, that you think it's obvious i'm "uneducated" about EV.. Ok that's fine, but instead of making a lame sarcastic comment, JUST EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT +EV!!!!! DONT WASTE a post making a sarcastic comment... it serves no purpose on a forum that's supposed to be educational... sarcasm on this board is friggin annoying... friggin wise guy... get off your high horse and learn to discuss with people, in a MATURE way your opinions and views... I'll listen... and possibly stand corrected... But that's no way to hold a discussion... even if i am dead wrong... THan correct me... but seriously... don't be a smart mouth... it's pointless...

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm a bit on tilt... i'll view my/your comments again after tomorrow and maybe delete this... maybe i'm short-tempered tonite....

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe.. i've noticed that you've been replying to your own posts throughout the night before anyone else can reply with an answer.. feeling ok? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I re-read what i've written... and realize i have something else to add... is that ok??

[/ QUOTE ]

YES ITS OK.. jeesh... attitude...

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GOLLUMM!!!!

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

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You'll still get called by lots of hands that you beat on the turn especially against weak competition and on a draw heavy board.

If you'd like to explain why you think raising all in on the flop is +EV but all-in on the turn is -EV I'd be interested to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen, i'm assuming, by your sarcastic tone, that you think it's obvious i'm "uneducated" about EV.. Ok that's fine, but instead of making a lame sarcastic comment, JUST EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NOT +EV!!!!! DONT WASTE a post making a sarcastic comment... it serves no purpose on a forum that's supposed to be educational... sarcasm on this board is friggin annoying... friggin wise guy... get off your high horse and learn to discuss with people, in a MATURE way your opinions and views... I'll listen... and possibly stand corrected... But that's no way to hold a discussion... even if i am dead wrong... THan correct me... but seriously... don't be a smart mouth... it's pointless...

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm a bit on tilt... i'll view my/your comments again after tomorrow and maybe delete this... maybe i'm short-tempered tonite....

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe.. i've noticed that you've been replying to your own posts throughout the night before anyone else can reply with an answer.. feeling ok? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I re-read what i've written... and realize i have something else to add... is that ok??

[/ QUOTE ]

YES ITS OK.. jeesh... attitude...

[/ QUOTE ]

GOLLUMM!!!!

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ahahaha.. ty for that.. i needed a laugh after the 13 hour work day

Re: Did I overplay QQ?
 

When villain bets into you on the flop for $4, I'd raise to $10 and see what happens. I'd be inclined to fold if I get a 3-bet push or a cold call of the raise to $10 followed by a $10 or more turn bet. This puts you in for half your stack.

I think low overpairs might call, but might fold. I don't think a hand like 88 3-bet pushes the flop if you raise to $10 very often. I think 66 will fold his OESD, or at least call/check. I think a set or two pair or a huge draw that has an advantage on you if they get all their money in on the flop might push.

The worst that happens is that he cold calls, then bets a $5 or less turn bet with a brick (no flush, not giving 4-to-a-straight). At that point, I think I make a crying call suspecting a flush draw and plan to call a river push on a no-flush river if I think villain bluffs like that with a missed flush. Why "crying"? Because I really would prefer to win with the $10 raise, and barring that just check it to the river and see who wins.

Unfortunately, you really have to go with a read, or at least a gut feeling, if you get cold called on a flop raise to $10. As a general plan, I think I'd try to get to the river cheaply after that, even risking giving a free river card.

I think this is a tough hand because the stack sizes relative to the pot are such that it is very hard not to get pot committed with a set, two pair, OESFD, Ah Kh, or some other hand that has an advantage on you as of the flop.

EDIT: This line will make you vulnerable to a bluff or an overplayed hand like TT or JJ. So, you do need some kind of a read to make a decision if villain doesn't fold your flop raise.