Play this flop for me...
 

Party .5/1.

Table was fairly normal, this hand was an exception.

PREFLOP: Hero has Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG+2.
<font color="#666666"> 1 fold </font> , UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="red"> MP1 raises </font>, <font color="#666666"> 1 fold </font>, <font color="red"> MP3 3 bets (all in) </font>, <font color="#666666"> 2 folds </font>, SB calls, BB calls, <font color="blue">[All in MP3 says "fvck PP"] </font>, everyone calls the raises back.

FLOP: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players (1 all in), 18SBs)
<font color="red"> SB bets </font>, <font color="red"> BB raises </font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero...

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

call and reevaluate on the turn.


both SB and BB probably have a weaker Q or a flush draw.
reads on these individual players would help. I think the only thing you would worry about is KQ or a set unless one of these players is the type that will limp AQ in this situation.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

I chuck this when it's 2 back to me preflop.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

Was the 3-bet a full 3-bet? Fold. (If it was like a 2 and a 1/4 bet than calling is fine.)

I probably fold the flop. MP1 still hasn't acted yet, and a cap seems likely. (MP1 3-bets, BB caps.) You don't have any backdoor draws, so someone should have you beat.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

Fold. Get away from that hand. I can only see trouble coming...

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

*grunch*

Raise the flop. With 6 players in you cannot really put BB on a stronger hand. In fact they are likly betting a draw or weak queen so this is a great chance to cut down on the number of players drawing against you.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

even though the pot is likely to be hugh id lay this one down. SB and BB wake up in a pf raised pot...set? flush draw? Q with a better kicker? all are possible and with very few outs i will not stick around to find out...
L

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

preflop is fine when the player is 3-betting to go all-in

the flop is tough because both players called a 3-bet so AQ is possible. this is a tough spot without reads especially with the flush draw (which UTG looks like he might have), so you're looking at 2 outs and you're not getting odds.

i'd need some postflop reads to not fold this right now.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
so this is a great chance to cut down on the number of players drawing against you.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is it? Of my 5 opponnents 3 have money in the pot and 1 is all in. Also the pot is freakin' HUGE.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

IMO, anything beyond the pf limp is borderline spewing. I fold to 2 back to me.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the only thing you would worry about is KQ or a set unless one of these players is the type that will limp AQ in this situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

2 of the 3 players to act ahead of me, including the raiser, were in the blinds. Not many players are capping AQo out of the blinds, not may are folding it either at this level.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I chuck this when it's 2 back to me preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. The 3 bettor was all in and tilting. Even if someone does have a premium hand here I don't mind paying 3, or even 4 bets to see a 6 way flop with QJs. Too much monster potential for me.

Would you fold this hand in the BB if was 2 bets to call and you knew you'd get 6 way action on the flop?

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

You're likely up against a better Q and with no Str8 or Flush possibilities it's time to move on.

Fold

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, anything beyond the pf limp is borderline spewing. I fold to 2 back to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really surprised that multiple people have said this so far. See my response to Bozlax for my take on preflop. I'll happily pay the 2 back to see a flop with that many opponents with a hand as good multiway as QJs. I wonder what Ed Miller would say.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, anything beyond the pf limp is borderline spewing. I fold to 2 back to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really surprised that multiple people have said this so far. See my response to Bozlax for my take on preflop. I'll happily pay the 2 back to see a flop with that many opponents with a hand as good multiway as QJs. I wonder what Ed Miller would say.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP can be pushing any 2 all-in. PF is an easy call.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

Yes. You should be able to fold at least the MP player and possibly SB as well. I am not going to fold TP with a J kicker in this huge pot because SB could easily have been betting a draw and BB could have another draw, a Q with a weak kicker, TT, JJ, or a bunch of other hands I beat. So my choices are call or raise. I think "raise" is the best choice here since it will thin the field, give me position and I probably can see a free card on the turn if I want it.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

Calling the flop and raising a non A/K/ [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn seems like a much more effective way if thinning the field if I choose to continue.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

If you call the flop MP2 is much more likely to call, and then SB definitely won't fold.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

*grunch*

FLOP: Hero three-bets to get players out of this big pot. You may be up against kicker trouble, but there are lots of draws out there. See what turn brings.

ScottieK

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

Grunch:

Getting 11:1, I still fold.

If there was a diamond on the board I would call.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

I can see folding to the two preflop, and I can also see calling to see a flop, with the knowledge that the all-in 3bettor probably doesn't have a real 3bet hand. But when the action on the flop to you goes bet-raise-call, I seriously consider dumping this. I figure I'm probably both outkicked right now AND up against a strong draw.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

I certainly don't claim expert status here, but from my limited experience, I find myself OOP with a very difficult hand to play here pf most of the time. My reasoning is:

1. position,
2. strengh of my hand,
3. SB &amp; BB cold calling to 3 bets (2.5 &amp; 2)!

At what you called a "normal" table, 1 may be an aggro maniac, but both of them? Really?

FWIW, I would call 1 back to me here. It is the blinds that push me towards folding in this hand.

On the flop, SB bets, BB raises, hmmm I think that reinforces the line I advocate, but that is results oriented thinking . . .

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

people need to stop harping on this preflop call and focus on the flop.

preflop a player 3-bet all-in, so it really doesn't matter from that point on because you're playing against the other people and the all-in can't take any more of your money, so it doesn't matter). just simply figure a player raises and your in BB (seeing as you already put in 1 bet) and you'd call this all day.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

Drop it like it's hot.

I would consider calling the PFR depending on table reads but on the flop I'd fold. It's two to you, and it still has to get back to MP1 who RPF.

Anyone raise this up PF?

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone raise this up PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the table and the limper. Honestly, not often, that I can remember.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I chuck this when it's 2 back to me preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. The 3 bettor was all in and tilting. Even if someone does have a premium hand here I don't mind paying 3, or even 4 bets to see a 6 way flop with QJs. Too much monster potential for me.

Would you fold this hand in the BB if was 2 bets to call and you knew you'd get 6 way action on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably would throw this away in the BB if it was 2 back to me, yes. That said, one of the things I really hate about the way this hand is setting up is that we're in the middle...EP or LP it's going to be much easier to play postflop than if you find yourself in the situation that you, uh, did...find...yourself in, with bettors on all sides of you and no idea where you stand because of the all-in tilter.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

*grunch*

I'd raise preflop. If it's one back to me on the flop I call, two, eh, not sure--I guess call since there are a couple people in? Also it might encourage people to take shots at you if you raise/fold preflop. If the flop goes that way--2 back to you--I would fold--everyone is showing a lot of strength and our hand is not that great.

Maybe a raise PF changes things.

BBB

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

::grunch::

I would normally fold this to the 3-bet, but it's possible MP3 just wanted to get all his chips in now, and you do have a lot of callers, so ... But you didn't ask about pre-flop, did you?

After the flop - ugh. Yes, it's a big pot and you might have the best hand at the moment, but I really don't see very many clean outs that will give you the best hand at showdown. Another Queen loses to AQ/KQ, both of which are possible here. A non-heart Jack is probably your best hope, and there are only two of those. And if this becomes one of those betting wars that spring up from time to time on the Party micro-limit tables, it's going to be expensive to see a showdown.

I think I just save my chips for the next hand in this case.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

I don't see how you can consider folding preflop here. A cap will be rare at $.5/1 and the all-in is just as likely to have 76s as AA. You have a 5-way pot on top of that.

Re: Play this flop for me...
 

Preflop: come on big pot baby.

Flop: that is a big pot and only the preflop raiser is behind you.
MP1 did not cap preflop so we are looking at a wide range here.
With 23sb in the pot hero calls because he may have the best hand and the turn will tell us a lot.