Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

I had a friend sweating me in this tourney cuz he was bored at work, and we got into a tiff about the way I played this one.

Blinds 100/200

Me (BB): 2500ish
Him (SB): 2600ish

He is 20 vpip, 10 pfr. Pretty much a typical party player who overvalues big cards, and isn't terribly tricky. I have been weak tight as hell trying to find a good double up opp as average stack is 4.4kish and we are at 140 left with 70 cashing.

Action:

All fold to him. He completes. I have K4o and make it 500 to go.

My friend says that pushing here should be automatic. I hate pushing in this spot. I will give my arguments later as to why I don't like pushing. Convince me that I am right or wrong.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

I'm curious as to your reasoning for the raise to 500? I suppose if you feel he will complete with any pp, and call an all-in with it, that would be a viable reason for not raising all in.

However if he is one of those players that will call a raise with decent high cards but not raise them in the SB, then I think raising to 500 is a very bad idea.

If called, are you planning on cont betting?

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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I'm curious as to your reasoning for the raise to 500?

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well, i like to keep my pf raises small. that way i dont tie myself to the pot later on.

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I suppose if you feel he will complete with any pp, and call an all-in with it, that would be a viable reason for not raising all in.

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maybe slightly. my background is in sngs. as such, i am very good with a short stack, and i have a strong dispassion for getting more than 10bb in preflop unless absolutely necesarry. essentially, i thought that a raise of 500 would accomplish essentially the same thing as a push. furthermore, it allows me to get away from the hand if he is trapping.

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If called, are you planning on cont betting?

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it depends upon the flop, but most likely the answer is yes.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

Is k4o really a hand you want to see a flop with?

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

i don't like pushing here. if you get get called, you're going to be ~30% vs Kx/55-QQ, or ~40% vs a non-dominating A.

that's pretty bad shape. and you have a lot of equity in the pot just by checking, roughly 60% (you're in position, and your hand's probably a little better than his). so of the 400 out there, you can expect to win ~240 on average, so you only really win 160 when he folds to your push. and you're risking 2300 to win that 160, which is too much.

i think making it 550-600 is fine (this is what i would do) and checking is fine, but pushing is risking too much to gain too little. if you had more like 9x instead of 12.5x i would probably push.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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All fold to him. He completes. I have K4o and make it 500 to go.

My friend says that pushing here should be automatic. I hate pushing in this spot. I will give my arguments later as to why I don't like pushing. Convince me that I am right or wrong.

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That is NOT what I said.

What I said was, I prefer both checking and pushing to making it 500, because all 500 does (300 more to win 700) is get zero hands to fold and bloat the pot so you can't get away from bluffing your whole stack at a paired board.....

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

I think making it 500 sets you up to be outplayed.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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i think making it 550-600 is fine (this is what i would do) and checking is fine, but pushing is risking too much to gain too little. if you had more like 9x instead of 12.5x i would probably push.

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my thoughts exactly.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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I think making it 500 sets you up to be outplayed.

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how? im in pos for the rest of a hand, and im a much better player than him.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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I think making it 500 sets you up to be outplayed.

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how? im in pos for the rest of a hand, and im a much better player than him.

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Not much room to be a better player than him when your stack is not much bigger than the pot. Are you pushing any flop that gets checked to you?

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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I think making it 500 sets you up to be outplayed.

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how? im in pos for the rest of a hand, and im a much better player than him.

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Not much room to be a better player than him when your stack is not much bigger than the pot. Are you pushing any flop that gets checked to you?

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hero will have 2000 with 1000 in the pot if he makes it 500. there's space there.

incidentally, how big would your stack (and SB's) have to be before you didn't push? 3000? 3500?

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

May seem weak, but I would rather just see the cheap flop with position. What do you do if he re-raises you all in?

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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how? im in pos for the rest of a hand, and im a much better player than him.

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You each have 1 bet left in your stack given the size of the pot, and being the SB, he gets to bluff first and therefore can outplay you here.

Given these stack sizes I check so I can outplay him on later streets, raising gives you each only 1 move left after the flop.

If he checks to you on the flop you're shoving it all in unless you really nailed it (2 pair+) right?

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

what? do math. 2000 stack 1000 pot. do push 2x for your cbets/probes?

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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If he checks to you on the flop you're shoving it all in unless you really nailed it (2 pair+) right?


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it mostly depends upon the texture. this particular flop came 882, and i did shove, but that is neither here nor there.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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incidentally, how big would your stack (and SB's) have to be before you didn't push? 3000? 3500?

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im kinda confused by the ?, but i would probably open shove anything if i was less than 2000, and definately if i was less than 1600.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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what? do math. 2000 stack 1000 pot. do push 2x for your cbets/probes?

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The OP is wrong, beefy had 2300 preflop. And 1800 with 1000 pot is really uncomfortable.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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incidentally, how big would your stack (and SB's) have to be before you didn't push? 3000? 3500?

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im kinda confused by the ?, but i would probably open shove anything if i was less than 2000, and definately if i was less than 1600.

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it was directed at durron. i.e., durron, would you shove if you had 3500 and SB completed?

it also makes sense if you flip it around and ask you a simliar question - what's the lowest you'd have to have before you pushed - which is what you answered.

personally i think that framing questions like this gets much better responses than "would you push with 2500 chips?"

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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it also makes sense if you flip it around and ask you a simliar question - what's the lowest you'd have to have before you pushed - which is what you answered.

personally i think that framing questions like this gets much better responses than "would you push with 2500 chips?"

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I would be willing to shove K4o all the way up to 2600 chips, and I would also check some of the time. I probably check 100% of the time with K4o from 2600 up to 3200, and sometimes check and sometimes make it 550-600 anything higher than 3200.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

I don't like the call from the small blind. Although you say the SB isn't "terribly tricky", I would be nervous that he has a big hand and is trying to induce a push. With just over 10 times the BB, I think you should check here.

Re: Blind v Blind, bubble approaching, party 20+2.
 

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I don't like the call from the small blind. Although you say the SB isn't "terribly tricky", I would be nervous that he has a big hand and is trying to induce a push. With just over 10 times the BB, I think you should check here.

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that is just weak. while this guy may have been trapping, i thought that much more probably there was t200 of dead money in the pot (and i was right) which would have looked very nice in my stack for my next double up opp.