Why I switched to Party
 

My first post after lurking for a while. I want to thank everyone that posts on this site, the discussions here could make anyone (ok almost anyone) a better player.

After about a year playing on UB I hit a horrid run. I was a winning player, not great, but making some money. Then I got cocky. I played above my limits and put myself into a 3 month downward spiral. I decided to take a break from cards. After about a week off I stumbled onto this site and started reading. Another week later I was making my first deposit at Party, I couldn't hold off anymore. I've been 3-4 tabling and doing quite well in the $11s so far, learning a lot from these forums. This hand below shows why I switched to Party and why I probably won't be leaving, unless the fish dry up.

Before you look at the results, try to put them on hands, I know I was surprised at showdown, I'll admit I got a little worried after 3 calls. This was the first hand by the way, the preflop call of the raise I think was ok based on the pot size and potential. Flame me if I am wrong...I'm here to learn.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
Hero (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, Hero calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t70</font>, MP3 calls t70, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t70, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls t55, Hero calls t55.

Flop: (t375) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t175</font>, MP3 calls t175, Button calls t175, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t730 (All-In)</font>, MP2 calls t555 (All-In), MP3 calls t555 (All-In), Button calls t555 (All-In).

Turn: (t3295) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 4 all-in)</font>

River: (t3295) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 4 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3295

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 5d 5s (three of a kind, fives).
MP2 has Ks Qh (two pair, kings and queens).
MP3 has 9s Qs (two pair, queens and nines).
Button has Ac Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins t3295. </font>

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

Prediction: You will get a lot of "Fold Preflop" responses.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

nah, he was getting almost 7-1 pot odds, that plus implied more than covers his set odds. I call this all day. Then again, I'm a luckbox :-P

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
nah, he was getting 5-1 pot odds, that plus implied more than covers his set odds. I call this all day. Then again, I'm a luckbox :-P

[/ QUOTE ]

He's calling off just under 1/10 of his stack on the sole chance of hitting a set. It's not a terrible call, but it's not one I'd particularly make with 800 stacks.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
Prediction: You will get a lot of "Fold Preflop" responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

No he won't.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
Prediction: You will get a lot of "Fold Preflop" responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be a leak and a half... he's almost got immediate odds to play! Surely he'll be paid off if he spikes a set.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

Come on... Many people here advocated folding Jacks in EP early in a Party SNG. You think they're gonna be thrilled with limp-call with 5s?

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

Thought process of each player at the river in this 10+1.

[ QUOTE ]


Hero has 5d 5s (three of a kind, fives).

these dudes are idiots, right?

MP2 has Ks Qh (two pair, kings and queens).

"What are these fools doing, i got top pair"

MP3 has 9s Qs (two pair, queens and nines).

"Man i'm glad that 9 came, im so ahead here. They are all chasing flushes I bet"

Button has Ac Qc (one pair, queens).

This is the best hand ive had all game... if I lose i'm gonna call them all noobs for betting into me"


Outcome: Hero wins t3295.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

I think I had the odds to call, I dont mind playing with a short stack and I'll probably fold 27 out of the next 29 hands anyways. If I hit the set and can double up, then I'm cruising to the money. Plus, there was no chance of a reraise after me as I'm last to act.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

The river? I can't imagine they were thinking much at the river, seeing as the action was done on the flop. And while KQ and Q9 definitely should have folded, I'm folding AQs with the four-flush in this situation approximately never.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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Come on... Many people here advocated folding Jacks in EP early in a Party SNG. You think they're gonna be thrilled with limp-call with 5s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand by my prediction.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I had the odds to call, I dont mind playing with a short stack and I'll probably fold 27 out of the next 29 hands anyways. If I hit the set and can double up, then I'm cruising to the money. Plus, there was no chance of a reraise after me as I'm last to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

The others are swaying me. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. I make this call in a flash at 55s and higher (1000 chip starting stack), but I'm afraid you're weakening yourself early here.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
Come on... Many people here advocated folding Jacks in EP early in a Party SNG. You think they're gonna be thrilled with limp-call with 5s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully those weakies will stay out of this thread. If you have to let 15 chips die because someone raises it a bunch behind you, big [censored] deal.

I'd rather raise JJ in EP but I'm on an aggro streak lately.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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Many people here advocated folding Jacks in EP early in a Party SNG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow ... and I thought I was tight.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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Come on... Many people here advocated folding Jacks in EP early in a Party SNG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like a link to the topic where that is said.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

*deleted because you posted a link*

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

He is getting almost 7 to 1 pot odds and it is 7.5 to 1 to hit a set (the only way I would EVER stay in this hand post flop). I am folding pre-flop every time here, the extra 55 is more important to my folding equity in level 4 than chasing a set and hoping to get paid off level 1. Situations like these are very rare.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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[ QUOTE ]
nah, he was getting 5-1 pot odds, that plus implied more than covers his set odds. I call this all day. Then again, I'm a luckbox :-P

[/ QUOTE ]

He's calling off just under 1/10 of his stack on the sole chance of hitting a set. It's not a terrible call, but it's not one I'd particularly make with 800 stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. I'd probably fold preflop but I don't think limp-calling with these odds is bad.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would like a link to the topic where that is said.

[/ QUOTE ] Here you go

Not ALL people said to fold them, but enough did... And I can't see those people any more thrilled with 5s.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I would like a link to the topic where that is said.

[/ QUOTE ] Here you go

Not ALL people said to fold them, but enough did... And I can't see those people any more thrilled with 5s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt fold the JJ either, but some people would be more apt to call the 55 because there are already 5 people in the pot which helps your set odds vs. pot odds a lot.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I would like a link to the topic where that is said.

[/ QUOTE ] Here you go

Not ALL people said to fold them, but enough did... And I can't see those people any more thrilled with 5s.

[/ QUOTE ]

1% said fold.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]

Not ALL people said to fold them, but enough did... And I can't see those people any more thrilled with 5s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking at the poll, 4 of 248 said to fold. That's a pretty small minority. I suspect the rest probably advocate playing them much like you'd play 55.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

Um. 4 people picked fold on the poll. I read one response that actually said fold, and he was obviously kidding. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
The river? I can't imagine they were thinking much at the river, seeing as the action was done on the flop. And while KQ and Q9 definitely should have folded, I'm folding AQs with the four-flush in this situation approximately never.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah...the AQ hand was the only legit hand...the rest? Well....they dont call it party for nothin..

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

Read the [censored] thread and get past the poll.

And many of the limpers would fold to a raise too, which is still a "Fold Preflop."

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
Um. 4 people picked fold on the poll. I read one response that actually said fold, and he was obviously kidding. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a few genuine responses from high level players who advocated folding. I think we all stand corrected.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Um. 4 people picked fold on the poll. I read one response that actually said fold, and he was obviously kidding. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a few genuine responses from high level players who advocated folding. I think we all stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I saw one poster who advocated folding, and one who said "I know why you would." Keep in mind, these posters were referring to the $215s. Much much different here.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Um. 4 people picked fold on the poll. I read one response that actually said fold, and he was obviously kidding. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a few genuine responses from high level players who advocated folding. I think we all stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

High-level players are facing better competition. Folding JJ UTG is silly at a table full of monkeys.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Um. 4 people picked fold on the poll. I read one response that actually said fold, and he was obviously kidding. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a few genuine responses from high level players who advocated folding. I think we all stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

High-level players are facing better competition. Folding JJ UTG is silly at a table full of monkeys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'm just saying,

he said "some people fold JJ here"

we said "no. you're silly."

he said "here's a link"

I said "touche"

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

You know how much folding JJ UTG sucks?

Multiply that by about 3 and that's how much folding 55 after this action sucks.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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Um. 4 people picked fold on the poll. I read one response that actually said fold, and he was obviously kidding. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a few genuine responses from high level players who advocated folding. I think we all stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

High-level players are facing better competition. Folding JJ UTG is silly at a table full of monkeys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'm just saying,

he said "some people fold JJ here"

we said "no. you're silly."

he said "here's a link"

I said "touche"

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong. he said "here's a link" we said. "you're still silly." you said. "maybe he's silly, but he's right." i said, "oh yeah? well let me to try to justify my statement which is really just a coverup for how wrong i was."

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

Hey, I think it sucks too. I play my jacks and I don't fold the 5s.

All I know is that this forum is insanely weak-tight in the early rounds of SNGs and I am surprised that this seems to have reversed itself, in this thread at least.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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Um. 4 people picked fold on the poll. I read one response that actually said fold, and he was obviously kidding. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a few genuine responses from high level players who advocated folding. I think we all stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

High-level players are facing better competition. Folding JJ UTG is silly at a table full of monkeys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'm just saying,

he said "some people fold JJ here"

we said "no. you're silly."

he said "here's a link"

I said "touche"

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong. he said "here's a link" we said. "you're still silly." you said. "maybe he's silly, but he's right." i said, "oh yeah? well let me to try to justify my statement which is really just a coverup for how wrong i was."

[/ QUOTE ]

touche

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]

All I know is that this forum is insanely weak-tight in the early rounds of SNGs and I am surprised that this seems to have reversed itself, in this thread at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

You play at UB, most of them play at Party. While I tend to agree with your assessment, I think it makes a pretty big difference.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

Maybe so but this thread is dealing with a PP hand.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
There were a few genuine responses from high level players who advocated folding. I think we all stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, no we don't. NYCNative made these statements:

"You will get a lot of "Fold Preflop" responses."
"Many people here advocated folding Jacks in EP early in a Party SNG"
"Not ALL people said to fold them, but enough did"
"And many of the limpers would fold to a raise too, which is still a "Fold Preflop.""

When I read the link, I think he is vastly distorting the responses to suit his contention that 2+2 posters are a bunch of weak-tight pansies.

I read the responses in the JJ UTG thread. I read the responses in the 55 UTG thread. I think they are very consistent. Anyone who thinks that 2+2 posters would advocate folding 55 in this situation (especially the second call preflop) doesn't understand basic 2+2 strategy.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

okay

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

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I would like a link to the topic where that is said.

[/ QUOTE ] Here you go

Not ALL people said to fold them, but enough did... And I can't see those people any more thrilled with 5s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Four out of over 200 voted fold and somehow you turned that into the forum line with JJ? Chances are they were just randomly voting to see the results.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chances are they were just randomly voting to see the results.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah, that's what I do when I go here: link. I rate em all a ten, so I can get to the next picture.

Re: Why I switched to Party
 

I don't mind the call PF...figure you can close betting wiht the call.(no chance at someone between you pushing all in, everyone runs for the hills, and the raiser gets a free 200 chips). You already limped with 15 and closing it for the CHANCE to hit the set sometimes is worth it. Especially this early in the tournament.

I recently posted a thread about loosening up in level 1 and 2, just for the chance to get paid off: obviously this is a textbook case of paying a bit more to see the flop and ba bam, look what it got you.

If you were in a different position, with even one limper behind you already, I'd consider folding. Since you can close betting, I like the call.