Big street decision
 

20/40 Borgata, 10 handed. I raise interracial KK UTG, folds to the BB who scans the table quickly and calls.

Flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5x 3x. Check, bet, call.

Turn is the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Check, bet, checkraise. He's one of few players at the table capable capable of making this raise on the turn with a hand I beat. Should I raise now or call and raise a blankish river and why?

Re: Big street decision
 

I'd 3 bet the turn. It's hard to win less with that line, but if a scary river card comes off he may check and foil your plan.

Re: Big street decision
 

raise now...he could be making a move with a flush draw or some straight draw, or a hand that you are just flat out beating, which means its time to collect some bets while you still can.

-mike

Re: Big street decision
 

mr. daver,

he may have a 9, a lower pp or may be semibluffing with a heart draw or gutshot. i would like a raise now. especially given your read.

Re: Big street decision
 

If you 3-bet and he caps, and the river does not improve your hand, do you call a river bet? What if the river is a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

Re: Big street decision
 

Sfer:

I lean toward a flat call on the turn and a call/raise on the river.

--If he has a made hand like a pocket pair or a nine, then will he not likely fold to a 3 bet? And you really would rather let him see the river and collect that extra bet when he only has 2 outs.

--If he picked up a heart draw, don't you think that the times he whiffs, he is still going to lead the river often? If so, you will collect the same amount when you are ahead and stay ahead, but lose more when he hits.

--If he has a 5 I guess it is a wash if you plan on raising the river on a blank....but it depends on what you do if he caps the turn when you 3-bet and what you do when he 3-bets the river when you wait.

--Rico

Re: Big street decision
 

Raise now, if he calls then just call him down on the river if he bets again, regardless of whether a heart comes up. If he checks on the river, it's a hard decision as to whether to bet into this. Most people would say, statistically, it's a no brainer. I say, fine, it's a no brainer, bet, if he raises you just call though.

Re: Big street decision
 

Shant's question is special - I'd say this is a question of feel and table image, really. If player is aggro and is capable of four betting to try to pick you off on the river (that's a rare aggro), well, call, call. If not, you may laydown the river, though even this is very hard. Gotta raise the turn though, get price in if he's on a draw.

Argun

Re: Big street decision
 

River raise and fold to a 3bet. Getting capped on the turn really sucks.

Re: Big street decision
 

when you say interracial kings does this mean you have the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? because that makes the biggest difference in the world.

Re: Big street decision
 

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when you say interracial kings does this mean you have the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? because that makes the biggest difference in the world.

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That is important, my bad. It's the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Re: Big street decision
 

Why is the King's suit important? I count two hearts on board. I would call twice but I think 3 betting now is better than calling and raising the river.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Big street decision
 

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Why is the King's suit important? I count two hearts on board. I would call twice but I think 3 betting now is better than calling and raising the river.

-DeathDonkey

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If he had the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] then there would be a lot less hands that the villain could be semi-bluffing with.

Re: Big street decision
 

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River raise and fold to a 3bet. Getting capped on the turn really sucks.

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Re: Big street decision
 

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If you 3-bet and he caps, and the river does not improve your hand, do you call a river bet?

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I don't plan on calling a turn 4-bet.

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What if the river is a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

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Bummer.

Re: Big street decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sfer:

I lean toward a flat call on the turn and a call/raise on the river.

--If he has a made hand like a pocket pair or a nine, then will he not likely fold to a 3 bet? And you really would rather let him see the river and collect that extra bet when he only has 2 outs.

--If he picked up a heart draw, don't you think that the times he whiffs, he is still going to lead the river often? If so, you will collect the same amount when you are ahead and stay ahead, but lose more when he hits.

--If he has a 5 I guess it is a wash if you plan on raising the river on a blank....but it depends on what you do if he caps the turn when you 3-bet and what you do when he 3-bets the river when you wait.

--Rico

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Yes and yes. But I think calling the turn gives me a chance to suckout.

Re: Big street decision
 

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If you 3-bet and he caps, and the river does not improve your hand, do you call a river bet?

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I don't plan on calling a turn 4-bet.

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Thanks. That makes more sense to me. In this case, I prefer the raise the river and fold to 3-bet line. It feels like your opponent will be playing their hand more honestly on the river so being reraised there means more.

Re: Big street decision
 

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If you 3-bet and he caps, and the river does not improve your hand, do you call a river bet?

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I don't plan on calling a turn 4-bet.


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If you're willing to just call the C/R because it gives you the chance to suckout when behind, then you have to call a 4-bet for the same reason.

Also, if your read on this player says that he's aggressive and good(although you didn't specifically say this in OP) enough to make this move with a hand you beat on the turn, then I think he is probably capable of picking up on your defensive turn call and might try to capitalize on your plan to fold to a 3-bet on the river. This all depends on your opponent, but I'm just throwing that out there.

My inclination is to 3-bet the turn and if you get popped, buckle in and trust your read on the river. (assuming your two-outer doesn't hit)

Re: Big street decision
 

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If you're willing to just call the C/R because it gives you the chance to suckout when behind, then you have to call a 4-bet for the same reason.

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That is a very small part of the reason to just call the check raise and it would be the only reason to call the 4 bet. The pot is not big enough to call the 4 bet based on sucking out.

Re: Big street decision
 

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If you're willing to just call the C/R because it gives you the chance to suckout when behind, then you have to call a 4-bet for the same reason.

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That is a very small part of the reason to just call the check raise and it would be the only reason to call the 4 bet. The pot is not big enough to call the 4 bet based on sucking out.

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You're absolutly right, I misunderstood OP's reply about sucking out. I was trying to get to the fact that if we're calling the check raise for that reason (where the pot is HU and small) than folding to a 4-bet doesn't make a lot of sense. Thanks for the response.

I still prefer 3-betting the turn though. I just don't like not getting at least one extra BB in there without being shown a little extra aggression from the BB, and I don't like raising the river based on what I said before. Raising and tehn folding the river can too easily put a target on our heads.