because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

Sorry about format, no hand history on hand.

full ring party 100 I think

folded to me on the button with AKo.

I raise to 4xBB.

sb folds, BB calls.

pot on flop : (8bbs)

flop : T 9 8 rainbow

BB checks, I check.

turn (8bbs): K putting a 2 flush on the board

BB checks, I bet 6bbs, BB calls.

river (20BBs) : 2 offsuit

BB checks, I bet 12BBs, BB check raises to 24BBs.

any problems?

I called but I was pretty sure I was behind.

anybody check behind on the river?

no reads on villain but I had been raising the button when folded to me about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

Honestly, easy fold on the river. Yes for metagame reasons you might not want to but no one is paying attention to how you play anyways and they will probably think that it was just a steal with complete air even if they are paying attention. I am 90% certain that he beats one pair here, though.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

yeah I agree. I guess I just wanted to see what he would play this way with and partly because the mincheckraise really irked me.

convinced myself with the "well if he even blufs X% of the time" line.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

You can't value bet this river if you can't fold to a raise I think. That's a relatively coordinated board and you are behind a lot of hands that will call that raise. Two pair or a straight a lot of the time. He *could* be taking a shot at you thinking your turn bet was a bluff, but I doubt that it's that. Very few people will bluff the river, if they will I take notes on it.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

People will bluff the river. People will not min c/r bluff the river.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

yeah I agree.

most of the time I check behind here but I wanted to try something new I guess since lately I feel I don't get enough value on my single pair hands.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

Villain either 1) decided that, on a lark, he'd check-raise bluff the river; or 2) flopped a straight. My vote is for #2 and my advice is to fold like a cheap suit.

I think the river value bet is fine here. Villain has shown no strength; you'll get looked up by weaker hands often enough; and river check-raises like this are fairly rare.

Why didn't you make a continuation bet on the flop? Was it because it was connected? If Villain had smooth called both flop and turn bets, then I'd go for the river check behind.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

I didn't continuation bet because it was connected and that most connectors and 1 gappers hit that flop with either the straight, a pair and straight draw, or 2 pair thus I didn't think I had much fold equity.

a flop of Q T 3 forexample, I'm much more inclined to bet because guys probably won't call with hands like T 8, T9, maybe JT because its believable that I have hit the Q and also they don't have a straight draw to go along with their pair.

here, if I bet, I have to represent overpair and since I was button open raiser, I don't think I can convince most people of this.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

Hey Shawn,

I basically agree with what everyone has said. River value bet is fine, provided you can fold to a checkraise. If you're going to pay it off anyway, just check behind. Btw, any particular reason why you didn't make a continuation bet on this flop? Did you feel like it was too coordinated for that to work?

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

read my reply to rocktansky.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

I check the river. I'm with you. I have no clue what he has that he could call the turn bet. But in all likelyhood, you are either crushed or he is very weak. So he's either going raise you on the river or not have much to call with anyway. Also, you're opening yourself up for a bluff river raise--even though it would seem obvious from your play that you have A-K. In NL, I'm normally checking the river in position in this situation, unless I have a REAL good read on him and this hand in particular. Or of cousre, I'm almost certain I have him crushed.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

Ah, makes sense. Good reasoning. I feel like a donkey for asking after you already posted though [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

I think the bet is good. Expect to get pair off by a weaker king or lower one pair hand. Easy fold to the c/r, though.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

yeah I think I agree.

what do you think about the amount?

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

Good amount. Could be a little less if villain is weak. I wouldn't go below half pot, though, probably.

results
 

well its gotten enough responces to give results.

villain shows 88 for flopped bottom set.

if you were in his shoes how would you play it?

I think I would attempt to check raise the flop, bet the turn, bet the river.

Re: because Goblue88 said I don\'t post enough hands
 

hahaha unfortunately i just woke up from a nap and missed the discussion. i've only looked at OP, but here are my thoughts:

-flop is fine as long as you sometimes check behind when you hit your hand (otherwise you'll become too predictable to players who pay attention). also, i like checking behind b/c i'm sure that any J will call you or semi-bluff you here.

turn- seems standard

river- i just don't see what he could have been slowplaying for this long. on a board like that, you'd think that he'd raise big on the turn with a huge hand. unless he has JQ? most players would lead the river with JQ though. i'd call his min raise as if he does have QJ or 2 pair (ie- K10), then he played it pretty badly. in answer to your other question, i would bet the river too.

Re: results
 

[ QUOTE ]
well its gotten enough responces to give results.

villain shows 88 for flopped bottom set.

if you were in his shoes how would you play it?

I think I would attempt to check raise the flop, bet the turn, bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd use an identical line if i hit my set. villian's line makes no sense to me...i assume he paid you off later on in the session?