Two Plus Two Older Archives - Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

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- - Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=369017)

tolbiny

10-31-2005 03:34 PM

Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

Just scanning through my last 40k hands during chem, and i am a tiny winner with 22, a small winner with 33, a sig loser with 44,55, and 66- and a winner from 77 and up. Sample size, blah blah-

Combining those three losers - 44-66, i have around 500 total hands, which i am going to go through and post ones i think i misplayed and ones that i don't think i misplayed (but no sets it is likely). Post some of your own - if i can't clear this up i may end up just playing them in the blinds like i do 22 and 33.

rhizome

10-31-2005 03:43 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

2/4 6 max
UTG 33/13/1.13 80 hands

UTG Raises, all fold, Hero in BB calls with [4h 4s]

FLOP:
2s 9c jd
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero Raises, UTG Calls

TURN:
5d
Hero bets, UTG Calls

RIVER:
7s
Hero checks, UTG checks

krishanleong

10-31-2005 03:46 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

Bet the river.

Krishan

Surfbullet

10-31-2005 03:48 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surf

IGMorton

10-31-2005 03:59 PM

a set of fives

what's really sad is that i can't find any interesting 22-66 hands at all. most of my small PP hands feature me either flopping monsters or at the other extreme folding on the flop. toss in a few boring call down to the river blind defense / steal hands and you have one really uninteresting group of hands ....zzzzzzz

I lost one of the three below. can you guess?

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB.

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.00 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB.

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 folds, Button calls.

Flop: (7.00 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB.

obsidian

10-31-2005 04:03 PM

Re: a set of fives

[ QUOTE ]
I lost one of the three below. can you guess?

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.00 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
This one?

IGMorton

10-31-2005 04:08 PM

Re: a set of fives

sorry, nope.

oxymoron

10-31-2005 04:21 PM

Re: a set of fives

I wish I was at home and can dig up some of my hands. I'm new to playing shorthanded and have been playing Poker Room's five handed tables. I mix it up but I occasionally just toss hands like 44,55 UTG. Is this terrible?

I'm guessing it was this hand:

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, 5.
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5, 9, A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB.

tolbiny

10-31-2005 04:21 PM

ugly 44 verses Lag

villan is 50/20ish over 100 hands

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

tolbiny

10-31-2005 04:27 PM

66 - count my flush outs?

villan is 35/11 over 100 hands.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

IGMorton

10-31-2005 04:43 PM

Re: a set of fives

looks fine to me. i dont think i'd fold that vs. anyone

i might have slow played a rainbow flop though.

IGMorton

10-31-2005 04:55 PM

Re: ugly 44 verses Lag

you 3-bet preflop and led the flop. when he responds by raising the turn on that sort of suited / connected board.... i hike up my skirt and run for the hills. seriously, if he didn't complete a draw or doesn't have a pair now... you still aren't in great shape: if he has overs, he has 6 outs. if he holds a single club he has another 9 outs. if the board pairs again, you pair is counterfitted = 6 more outs. he could have a gutshot 2 ways... etc.

surfdoc

10-31-2005 05:06 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

Maybe we should all combine our stats to get a decent sample size. I am thinking as a whole we probably place to much value on small pairs and should be considering folds with these in hands like this Baron hand.

When I get a second I will post filter 125K hands or so and see. My prediction is that I am a small loser with these hands even playing them more selectively perhaps than others.

ErrantNight

10-31-2005 05:50 PM

Re: ugly 44 verses Lag

bet/fold the turn.

Victor

10-31-2005 05:58 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

i am a moderate winner with 22 and a larger loser with 33-44. i am a down 100 with 55. 66 and above i am a moderate to large winner.

i think the difference is that with 22 i basically stopped playing it unless the pot was multiway and then i only played for set value. i think i often overplay the others. so, i think 44 should be downgraded to the same range and style as 22 and 33.

i think 55 should be downgraded too but i think it has value in steal situations. there is no reason that all these hands are not winners in the long run.

EvanJC

10-31-2005 06:08 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

found another really ugly one. villian was 64/12/1.14 over an insignificant amount of hands. i play bad

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

brazilio

10-31-2005 06:11 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
found another really ugly one. villian was 64/12/1.14 over an insignificant amount of hands. i play bad

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's retarded enough to checkraise that river I just bet/fold. I think you're probably losing a small amount of value from a 9 or 8.

obsidian

10-31-2005 06:35 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

Damn man, bet the river.

obsidian

10-31-2005 06:43 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
i am a moderate winner with 22 and a larger loser with 33-44. i am a down 100 with 55. 66 and above i am a moderate to large winner.

i think the difference is that with 22 i basically stopped playing it unless the pot was multiway and then i only played for set value. i think i often overplay the others. so, i think 44 should be downgraded to the same range and style as 22 and 33.

i think 55 should be downgraded too but i think it has value in steal situations. there is no reason that all these hands are not winners in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have noticed this as well. I've begun folding 22 and 33 a lot more. I think that should be changed to include 44 and possibly 55.

Filtered for 170k hands of 2/4-10/20 shorthanded I am at a small loser with 22, 33, & 55. When not a blind I am only a small loser with 22, (0.04).

Guruman

10-31-2005 07:37 PM

Re: 66 - count my flush outs?

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

why call the turn raise if you are going to fold this river?

Spartan1983

10-31-2005 07:51 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

22 181x .07BB 33 185x .23BB 44 176x (.04)BB 55 187x (.18)BB 66 167x .24BB 77 183x .07BB all from SH play.

oxymoron

10-31-2005 07:58 PM

Re: a set of fives

[ QUOTE ]
looks fine to me. i dont think i'd fold that vs. anyone

i might have slow played a rainbow flop though.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
That was your hand. You asked which one you lost and I was guessing it was that one.

surfdoc

10-31-2005 07:59 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

hand, # of times, BB/Hand

66, 513, .17
55, 484, (.07)
44, 466, .04
33, 481, .05
22, 520, (.07)

Totalled together

2464, .03

So I am happy to report at least these are small winners. Better than I predicted.

baronzeus

10-31-2005 08:08 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

22 454 (.06)
33 481 .04
44 488 (.08)
55 519 .02
66 469 .44
Total 2431 .07

Just goes to show how little these results matter. Look at the difference between 66 and 55.

Victor

10-31-2005 08:13 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

all 10/20
hand # bb/hand
66 568 .22
55 655 (.01)
44 621 (.12)
33 564 (.07)
22 587 .06

total is .08bb/hand.

clealy 33-55 should be winners if 22 is. so i suppose this is a leak and a fairly big one yet easy to fix. i will simply stop goin so far with the smaller pairs.

Victor

10-31-2005 08:14 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
Just goes to show how little these results matter. Look at the difference between 66 and 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like we all have this large difference.

baronzeus

10-31-2005 08:16 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just goes to show how little these results matter. Look at the difference between 66 and 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like we all have this large difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you honestly think that 55 should be .46/hand less than 66? i am misplaying 55 a lot or just running bad.

Victor

10-31-2005 08:17 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

look at my stats and surfdocs and your stats. combine them.

baronzeus

10-31-2005 08:39 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
look at my stats and surfdocs and your stats. combine them.

[/ QUOTE ]

just fixed something (55 was +.02, not -.02) but im still perplexed a bit.

econ_tim

10-31-2005 09:59 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

HU

Only have 20 or so hands on Villain, but seems kinda weak HU.

I have 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on Button.
I raise, BB calls.
Flop: (4 BB) Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I bet, he calls.
Turn: (3 BB) 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I bet, he calls.
River: (5 BB) 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I bet, he raises, I call.

Guess this is standard and all.

econ_tim

10-31-2005 10:10 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

$1/$2 4 handed

After 60 hands, Villain's blind steal percentage is under 20, and his postflop aggression is 1.4.

Hero is BB with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.5 BB) K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.5 BB) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero ...

does what with what plan?

Victor

11-01-2005 12:04 AM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
look at my stats and surfdocs and your stats. combine them.

[/ QUOTE ]

just fixed something (55 was +.02, not -.02) but im still perplexed a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

me too. i would love to see some more ppls results with these hands. is it possible that all of us are overvaluing and overplaying 55? is 66 that inately stronger?

brazilio

11-01-2005 12:06 AM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
$1/$2 4 handed

After 60 hands, Villain's blind steal percentage is under 20, and his postflop aggression is 1.4.

Hero is BB with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.5 BB) K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.5 BB) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero ...

does what with what plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can usually bet/fold that. Perhaps a c/c, but I can't really put him enough on a turned flush to say that.

BottlesOf

11-01-2005 01:31 AM

Re: ugly 44 verses Lag

How easy is this turn bet? How easy is the call of the raise?

BottlesOf

11-01-2005 01:32 AM

Re: 66 - count my flush outs?

Wouldn't call this turn. Should I?

tolbiny

11-01-2005 10:15 AM

Re: ugly 44 verses Lag

During the hand my line of thinking was probably - bet the turn and fold to a raise - but instead whne it happened i bet the turn, tought about him being a lag, and called anyway. Looking back i think a check on the turn is def called for.

tolbiny

11-01-2005 10:16 AM

Re: 66 - count my flush outs?

That was my question about the turn - may have outs to a flush/set, and then again i may not. I don't know really, but i really felt like i buthcered this hand.

w_alloy

11-01-2005 11:48 AM

Re: ugly 44 verses Lag

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, 4.
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't believe noone else comented on this... is this really standard here? I fold this preflop almost every time.

w_alloy

11-01-2005 12:00 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

[ QUOTE ]
would love to see some more ppls results with these hands. is it possible that all of us are overvaluing and overplaying 55? is 66 that inately stronger?

[/ QUOTE ]

About 55k hands (around 250 instances each, () are negative):

66 .11 BB/hand
55 (.12)
44 .16
33 (.09)
22 .3

The trend continues...

wackjob

11-01-2005 01:16 PM

Re: Screw sets, post your 44,55,66 hands

When I open PT now it doesn't display starting hands. Anyone else encounter this or is it a known bug in PT?

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