What\'s With This DERB?
 

Can someone bring me up to speed?

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

I'm in the same boat bro. What is up with this DERB? I really wanna know.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

According to both dataminers and players and obervers, DERB is a loose, aggressive unorthodox player who is destroying the partypoker games $30/$60 and up. He is doing this despite making numerous plays that seem quite atrocious by standard logic. The other interesting part of it is that he is from Llubjana (possibly spelled wrong), which seems to be a hotbed of poker in eastern Europe. There seems to be quite a braintrust centered there. So the big question is, has DERB (and maybe his Llubjana friends) stumbled on to some alternative winning strategy or does he simply DERB (Don't Ever Run Bad).

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

DERB - Dont Ever Run Bad

here is the original thread

apparently he plays far too loose and aggressive to possibly be a winning player as far as anyone can tell, but he somehow has shown a profit over many hands that no 2+2er can beat, looking at some of his hands, it seems that he plays horribly postflop and plays far too many hands preflop, but somehow is a consistant winner

some think that he has discovered a new strategy that is better than the standard TAG for beating TAG games, others think he is just a luckbox, and others think he may be cheating

i actually dont know if he is still showing a profit, but he did for a while at least, and it is interesting to see that a player with completely unconventional tactics can be a consistant winner, but looking at his hands, im really not convinced that it is more than just extended luck

i also dont know all of the details as far as who he is or what the significance of him being from slovenia is, but i think there are others who know a bit more than i do

anyway, you should be able to find at least the basics of what i know in the link if you have not already seen the old thread

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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im really not convinced that it is more than just extended luck

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I've only taken the VERY occasional crack at those limits online but my thought is at some point you have to give him credit for developing a quality outside-the-box metagame strategy that works well for him.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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I've only taken the VERY occasional crack at those limits online but my thought is

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A better line would have been 'I have never played against DERB, so i wont give my thoughts'.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

ive never played against him either and really dont know what im talking about here, but i just dont see how throwing away 3+ BB on hopeless hands with 0 FE fairly often could possibly be made up for with meta-effects that you already have a reputation for and could easily make that reputation last while not recklessly spewing chips for no reason quite as often as he appears to

also do we know if hes still a winner?

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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I've only taken the VERY occasional crack at those limits online but my thought is

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A better line would have been 'I have never played against DERB, so i wont give my thoughts'.

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In the same line of thinking, I hope you don't have any thoughts on abortion, space travel, war and crime.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

The search function is you friend n00b!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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I've only taken the VERY occasional crack at those limits online but my thought is

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A better line would have been 'I have never played against DERB, so i wont give my thoughts'.

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In the same line of thinking, I hope you don't have any thoughts on abortion, space travel, war and crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

worst analogy ever.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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im really not convinced that it is more than just extended luck

[/ QUOTE ]

I've only taken the VERY occasional crack at those limits online but my thought is at some point you have to give him credit for developing a quality outside-the-box metagame strategy that works well for him.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

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this is such a 2+2-math-guy-no-game thing to say... if he came back w/ new acct/location/etc, hed still win.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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this is such a 2+2-math-guy-no-game thing to say... if he came back w/ new acct/location/etc, hed still win.

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if you look at my original post, i tried to give all the points of view, and then stated my oppinion, then i said that i probably dont know what i am talking about since ive never played with him

i dont think it is impossible for someone with his stats to be a long-term winner, but looking at the hands that have been posted and hearing what 2+2ers who have played with him have said about his play, i am not convinced, it just seems like he sucks postflop

perhaps we can learn something from his play, i dont know, if he is a winner or the best player ever or whatever his thinking is probably far above my level, because it dosent seem to me that the wasted bets can be easily made up by having a crazy image

i would be very interested in what david or mason have to say after they look over some of his play and his long-term numbers

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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The other interesting part of it is that he is from Llubjana (possibly spelled wrong), which seems to be a hotbed of poker in eastern Europe. There seems to be quite a braintrust centered there.

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These guys have been doing well in the online games pretty much from the beginning. Back in 2000/2001 I remember friends who played in the Paradise 20/40 (biggest online game at the time, except for maybe the wsex 30/60 that rarely got going) talking about Angelina et al.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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The other interesting part of it is that he is from Llubjana (possibly spelled wrong), which seems to be a hotbed of poker in eastern Europe. There seems to be quite a braintrust centered there.

[/ QUOTE ]
These guys have been doing well in the online games pretty much from the beginning. Back in 2000/2001 I remember friends who played in the Paradise 20/40 (biggest online game at the time, except for maybe the wsex 30/60 that rarely got going) talking about Angelina et al.

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These guys don't all play the same though. Although I think most (or maybe even all) of them play a little on the LAG side, DERB seems to be the laggiest except for maybe GjinGjini who is clearly a loser in these games.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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The other interesting part of it is that he is from Llubjana (possibly spelled wrong), which seems to be a hotbed of poker in eastern Europe. There seems to be quite a braintrust centered there.

[/ QUOTE ]
These guys have been doing well in the online games pretty much from the beginning. Back in 2000/2001 I remember friends who played in the Paradise 20/40 (biggest online game at the time, except for maybe the wsex 30/60 that rarely got going) talking about Angelina et al.

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys don't all play the same though. Although I think most (or maybe even all) of them play a little on the LAG side, DERB seems to be the laggiest except for maybe GjinGjini who is clearly a loser in these games.

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yea, angelina is closer to GjinGjini than to DERB

but she still wins a SH*Tload of money off people who just for some reason cannot adjust to her.

Barron

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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The other interesting part of it is that he is from Llubjana (possibly spelled wrong), which seems to be a hotbed of poker in eastern Europe. There seems to be quite a braintrust centered there.

[/ QUOTE ]
These guys have been doing well in the online games pretty much from the beginning. Back in 2000/2001 I remember friends who played in the Paradise 20/40 (biggest online game at the time, except for maybe the wsex 30/60 that rarely got going) talking about Angelina et al.

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys don't all play the same though. Although I think most (or maybe even all) of them play a little on the LAG side, DERB seems to be the laggiest except for maybe GjinGjini who is clearly a loser in these games.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, angelina is closer to GjinGjini than to DERB

but she still wins a SH*Tload of money off people who just for some reason cannot adjust to her.

Barron

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if gjingjini is winning, id be surprised... im no expert on the party limit games, but that guy seems to play pretty effing bad..

To answer the original question :
 

Derb is a player in the biggest party games with a pretty high % of hands played preflop (compared to standard TAG assumptions) and an extremely aggressive post flop style.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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A better line would have been 'I have never played against DERB, so i wont give my thoughts'.

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In the same line of thinking, I hope you don't have any thoughts on abortion, space travel, war and crime.

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worst analogy ever.

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You've had an abortion?

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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if gjingjini is winning, id be surprised... im no expert on the party limit games, but that guy seems to play pretty effing bad..


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I haven't played on Paradise at all, but I'm guessing Angelina plays a lot more short-handed games, and this somewhat accounts for her being a winner and GjinGjini being a loser if they have similar styles. Also he/she probably plays MUCH better postflop.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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if gjingjini is winning, id be surprised... im no expert on the party limit games, but that guy seems to play pretty effing bad..


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I haven't played on Paradise at all, but I'm guessing Angelina plays a lot more short-handed games, and this somewhat accounts for her being a winner and GjinGjini being a loser if they have similar styles. Also he/she probably plays MUCH better postflop.

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Is Angelina, Angelina Fekali? and if so, does anybody know Izmet Fekali's ID?

cheers

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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if gjingjini is winning, id be surprised... im no expert on the party limit games, but that guy seems to play pretty effing bad..


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I haven't played on Paradise at all, but I'm guessing Angelina plays a lot more short-handed games, and this somewhat accounts for her being a winner and GjinGjini being a loser if they have similar styles. Also he/she probably plays MUCH better postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Angelina, Angelina Fekali? and if so, does anybody know Izmet Fekali's ID?

cheers

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i used to think (1 week ago) pretty strongly that angelina was Izmet Fekali.

she seems to be izmet's sister though so yea im pretty sure now that she is indeed izmet's sister. i have no clue as to what sites or names izmet plays on and under.

Barron

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

Just as an amusing side note, one of these Ljubljana players used to go by the handle, "sklanskysux".

time for a DERB forum....
 

....so all the DERB threads are placed there.

BTW, is DERB up to 700k hands yet? Can we sell his stats?
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

Is there a good reason to believe that his results are legitmate? Even if he is not colluding, could he perhaps be having chips dumped to him for sime reason?

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

This is actually something I have silently wondered for a while.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

Why would anyone choose a 10-handed game for chipdumping?

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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Is there a good reason to believe that his results are legitmate? Even if he is not colluding, could he perhaps be having chips dumped to him for sime reason?

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I really don't think this is very likely. I've personally played tens of thousands of hands against him and I'm sure many other posters here have as well. I've never seen anything that would indicate that sort of thing. I'm also not certain what types of measures the poker site has in place to detect/prevent chip dumping, but it's very likely they have some sort of reasonable security measures in place as they would not want to get pegged as enabling easy money laundering.

I don't have any reason to believe his results are illegitimate, at least as far cheating/chip dumping goes.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

And how could the "Redumping" on the side be explained?

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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This is actually something I have silently wondered for a while.

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After watching him a bunch this week I haven't seen anything that would make me think he is involved with colluding, chipduming, etc. Also, as there is a pretty small core group that plays a bunch in the 50, someone assuredly would have observed/reported any collusion if it had happened.

___1___

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

Apparently there are lots of two plus twoers who dump chips to him. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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Is there a good reason to believe that his results are legitmate? Even if he is not colluding, could he perhaps be having chips dumped to him for sime reason?

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those that play in these games have no reason to suspect that chips are being dumped. these are also the games that people mine. it could easily be shown (by those w/ the databases) that the biggest losers in the game are not from ljubljana and are losing money to others as well at a similar, albeit smaller rate.

further, this player has creamed every single limit game that he/she has played (not sure its a guy or girl so just call it he). and to add to the non-coincidental evidence, ljubljana is a city in slovenia in which both Abdul Jahlib and Izmet Fekali reside, and where they conduct research.

these factors have led me to believe that the plays that we see (and ive seen) that appear to be spews are indeed -EV, but that overall, the action generated on greater hands vs. lesser observant opponents who cap 3rd pair vs. DERB outweigh these losses in EV.

i can't tell you 100% that DERB is a winning overall player and not a lottery winner. but id lay you some serious odds. id say pretty safely that at this point id lay 9:1 odds DERB has come accross a winning strategy that is not outlined by traditional poker theory.

Barron

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

cap 3rd pair on which street? from the plays i've seen, for him to be capitalizing on his advertising, he would need people to cap losing hands on the turn...which i haven't noticed. no thinking player would do this even against a maniac. hes an anomoly or a cheater. waht better pLAce to run a hi-tech cheating ring than llubijinai (whatever)

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

he was an abortion

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

Perhaps he has some knowledge of other people's hole cards, and protects that knowledge by only using it some of the time?

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

Some suggestions:

1. Get Abdul-Jalib back on 2+2.
2. Observe the games he/she plays in. Get stats, and take notes on the plays made.
3. If this strategy is indeed a success, 2+2 Publishing
should commission a book on this revolutionary new way to win at poker! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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Perhaps he has some knowledge of other people's hole cards, and protects that knowledge by only using it some of the time?

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If he's smart enough to have figured a way to cheat like this, no way he'd be stupid enoug to be playing on the same account this whole time. Especially when he's garnered this much attention.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

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Is there a good reason to believe that his results are legitmate? Even if he is not colluding, could he perhaps be having chips dumped to him for sime reason?

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No. He's just good and the reasons are quite simple in my view. In a nutahell, his image wins him more bets than his occasional questionable decisions loses him. He plays a style that most 2+2 TAG-types don't know how to exploit properly (and still beats the true fish).

or wait...
 

...he could also be getting better. how do his stats now relate to when he was "discovered".

i say this because a friend of mine started out w/ horrendous stats and won a moutain at the 10-20 6 handed and has since gotten much better and his stats have chnged dramatically but he still gets mucho action.

Re: or wait...
 

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...he could also be getting better. how do his stats now relate to when he was "discovered".

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Basically the same.

I posted this earlier or in the other thread, he doesn't appear to get that much excessive action - his avg. BB's won per hand is right in line with the 2+2 style. The difference is, he's playing almost twice as many hands, so he can win almost twice as much.

Re: What\'s With This DERB?
 

There isn't any information in this thread that you couldn't have gotten by reading the other threads. Aren't duplicate threads supposed to be deleted?

-Michael