for those playing 400 and above
 

So I have been beating the 200 6 max games fairly profitably (11ptbbs/100) 4tabling.

while I do not have a big enough sample size to mark this as my true winrate, I certainly think that my true winrate shouldn't be any lower than say 7.5ptbbs/100.

My problem is at some point certainly it would seem that it would be less profitable to move up. while you might still find an edge against the setminers and good Lags which fill the higher games, these games are simply lacking in the calling stations that made lower games so profitable.

So I ask you guys, what motivates you guys to go higher and higher? Is it just to improve your poker? certainly at some point you can't multitable anymore while still maintaining a winrate thats more than 1/2 of your winrate 1 limit lower.

thanks
amoeba

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

I'm playing 600 nl 6 max and theres still a lot of bad lags you can beat. And Im still able to maintain a 5-6 PTBB/100, so the hourly rate 4 tabling is somewhat interesting, to say the least.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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I'm playing 600 nl 6 max and theres still a lot of bad lags you can beat. And Im still able to maintain a 5-6 PTBB/100, so the hourly rate 4 tabling is somewhat interesting, to say the least.

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interesting. this gives me good hope.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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So I ask you guys, what motivates you guys to go higher and higher? Is it just to improve your poker? certainly at some point you can't multitable anymore while still maintaining a winrate thats more than 1/2 of your winrate 1 limit lower.


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Well, money is a pretty big motivator. By my quick calculation, you're making about $70/hr right now correct? But why not aim for $100/hr, $200 even? Also , moving up will provide more of a challenge, and will probably be more intellectually stimulating.

Now if you play as a signficant source of income, you may not want to take the risk and time to learn to win at a higher limit. Nothing wrong with grinding a lower limit and still making a very significant amount of money.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

well I guess its a tradeoff factor. I'm not sure I want to say increase from 70/hour to 100/hour while having much bigger swings and also doing more work.

I don't know, perhaps I'm just giving too much credit to those playing above me.

I do think a lot of the reason for moving up after a certain point is pride though.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

But making 200/hour is possible a 3/6, imagine 5/10 and 10/20 ... Why limit yourselve ? Move up and see if you can beat the limit with your game. I dont think that the difference between 70/hour and 200/hour is trivial.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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But making 200/hour is possible a 3/6, imagine 5/10 and 10/20 ... Why limit yourselve ? Move up and see if you can beat the limit with your game. I dont think that the difference between 70/hour and 200/hour is trivial.

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no of course not. I just don't know if 200/hour is feasible for me.

oh well, no fear.

you guys watch out. I'm moving on up to the east side.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

I destroyed the 200 NL games for $100/hr 4 tabling this summer and I thought there wasn't any reason to move up. The low bankroll requirements to win rate seemed to make the move up foolish. But after awhile I got bored, I've seen almost every type of play made at 200 NL and figured out strategies to beat the best players in the game but I was ready for a new challenge. The 400 NL game is slightly more profitable than the 200 NL but when I moved up 1000 NL two weeks ago, I foudn a much better game than the 400NL. I've been on fire pr averaging 7.PTBB/100 (15,000 hands) and the play is much different from 200NL but is still exploitable, i.e. people will stack off with top pair like hands. Main reasons to move up. 1. More money 2. higher intellectual stimiluation and 3. more horrendous lags to donate money.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

i get bored

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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1. More money 2. higher intellectual stimiluation and 3. more horrendous lags to donate money.

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Thats it, especially number 3.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

I've been 4-tabling NL400 6max for almost 60k hands averaging 5.5PTbb/100. My true win rate is about $110/hour.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and [censored] the prom queen."

Money is fun, but compeition and winning is cool

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but 4-tabling 6max! Do you find that forces you to pretty much ABC poker your way through everything?

I can't pay attention to player tendencies at all when 3-tabling 6max. For example, if a guy bets out with draws, or slowplays sets, or if he knows what he's doing.

How important are player reads to you when 4-tabling? Are VPIP/PFR/WTSD the only things we really need?

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

also as you move up game selection becomes more and more important.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

4-tabling 6m is a piece of cake. You just add tables as you get used to it. I do it with 90% table overlap and it's fine.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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I do it with 90% table overlap and it's fine.

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You need a better monitor TWP.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

Haha yeah. I just bought a 21" CRT last week for $150 by looking at craigslist. I couldn't take the overlap anymore. Just check out craigslist and buy a cheap used 1600x1200 monitor.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

[ QUOTE ]
Haha yeah. I just bought a 21" CRT last week for $150 by looking at craigslist. I couldn't take the overlap anymore. Just check out craigslist and buy a cheap used 1600x1200 monitor and take it with you when you fly between NYC and Atlanta every Sunday and Thursday

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Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

I think it depends on the site. I know on the Party Network I've multitabled at the 5/10NL level and you run into the same bad players. You do get LAG's you get some calling stations who will call off their whole stack with middle pair. But I don't think even on Party you can 4 table at 5/10, 2 tabling is definitely possible. There are some very good players that you will need to observe.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but 4-tabling 6max! Do you find that forces you to pretty much ABC poker your way through everything?

I can't pay attention to player tendencies at all when 3-tabling 6max. For example, if a guy bets out with draws, or slowplays sets, or if he knows what he's doing.

How important are player reads to you when 4-tabling? Are VPIP/PFR/WTSD the only things we really need?

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you are either not going to believe me or think I'm a big idiot but of late I've been ignoring PT during play and only using it for postplay analysis. when I used PT during play, I actually did much worse than I am currently doing. Of course sample size for this new no PT method is only 20k or so so time will tell.

I find that you'll pick up on a player's looseness or tightness as well as aggression, quickly enough without PT's help and often a reliance on PT stats will give you wrong ideas about villain's postflop play. I pretty much ignore VPIP these days aside from those that are blinds to my button and those that are button to my BB. I try to focus on how they play a few key hands then interpolate to how they would play similar hands. a lot of times, you might miss a key hand but then the post hand comments in the chat alert you to look at your hand history for example.

by standards here, I am definitely TAG with 21/10 stats but I don't think I'm ABC. I'll occasionally blow away suspected continuation bets with nothing and also reraise suspected LAGs with nothing, check call down with top pair, call suspected missed draw river bluffs with Ace high, etc...

so while my stats probably show me to be ABC, I am able to make moves.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

My work laptop does 1600 x 1200. It's a pretty big screen, so although small it isn't annoying. Much better then overlap at a different resolution IMO.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

Congratulations. Mine doesn't do high res and it is small.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

lol, datamine 5/10 NL for awhile and you'll find 25% of the players are playing 4 tables.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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lol, datamine 5/10 NL for awhile and you'll find 25% of the players are playing 4 tables.

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or you have some ridiculous players doing 3 HU matches + 4 tables + MTTs on multiple sites at the same time

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

are these all sharks?

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

Yes.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

amoeba, i do the same with pt. only for post game analysis. in the heat of battle i misintrepret way too much.

plus my notes are better then raw numbersi HOPE

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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are these all sharks?

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of course. i think the guy i was thinking about was xxxJOKERxxx or something like that, placed like 5th in WCOOP main event while simultaneously playing 2 HU 10/20 ring games and 2+ 10/20 6-max games

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

[ QUOTE ]
amoeba, i do the same with pt. only for post game analysis. in the heat of battle i misintrepret way too much.

plus my notes are better then raw numbersi HOPE

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cool.

hehe, I miss those days when we would argue about raising KQs out of the blinds.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

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hehe, I miss those days when we would argue about raising KQs out of the blinds.

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heh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I thought it was just completing from the blinds with KQs? Someone, I'd bet alot of money it was sourbeaver, wanted to fold this from sb.

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

It was sourbeaver. You'll never guess who he got the idea from. Unless you read MHFL forum. =)

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

[ QUOTE ]
It was sourbeaver. You'll never guess who he got the idea from. Unless you read MHFL forum. =)

[/ QUOTE ]

Im guessing tommy angelo

Re: for those playing 400 and above
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was sourbeaver. You'll never guess who he got the idea from. Unless you read MHFL forum. =)

[/ QUOTE ]

Im guessing tommy angelo

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Wow, you are wise beyond your years.