Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

There! I said it!

(Kind of like an alcoholic admitting their problem at an AA meeting)

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

explain

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

the R word should not change how you play. its a "gift" for your normal playing style. changing your play to increase the R is -EV.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

An alcoholic at a pocket aces meeting?

"Hi, my name is Derek, and I just had my aces cracked on the bubble of a $200 tournament"

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]
An alcoholic at a pocket aces meeting?

"Hi, my name is Derek, and I just had my aces cracked on the bubble of a $200 tournament"

[/ QUOTE ]

on monday, wednesdays, and fridays, we play poker at my AA meeting. on tuesdays, thursdays, and saturdays, we drink t alcohol at gamblers annyonomous(sp?)

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

What do you do on Sundays?

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

We play poker after my Gamblers anonomous meeting. There are 6 of us that go play at one of the guys house. Once a month we have 2 strippers come over for an hour. I started going to the meetings to get in this game. Nothing like sitting with a bunch of gamblers playin poker. EV+ [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

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changing your play to increase the R is -EV.


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Not exactly true.

Lower rakes increase the number of starting hands that you can play profitably. Higher rakes decrease the number of starting hands you can play profitably.

So, it's not that you change your play to increase the Rakeback. It's because of rakeback that you would change your play. This change in play will actually increase the Rake that you would have payed before rakeback.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]
explain

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A more accurate statement would have been to say the more I tried to maximize the amount of my rakeback as opposed to playing fewer tables and attempting to make the best possible decision on each hand by considering all the information at my disposal has hurt my game.

I have little doubt that for me to play my very best poker, I should only play one table. Now does this mean I will earn more money if I took that path? Probably not, but maybe. If I had not taken the path of multi-tabling $5/$10 & $3/$6 to max out rake, I might now be playing one table of $30/$60 or $50/$100 and beat it for 1.5 BB/100 because I would be making much better poker decisions on average.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
explain

[/ QUOTE ]

A more accurate statement would have been to say the more I tried to maximize the amount of my rakeback as opposed to playing fewer tables and attempting to make the best possible decision on each hand by considering all the information at my disposal has hurt my game.

I have little doubt that for me to play my very best poker, I should only play one table. Now does this mean I will earn more money if I took that path? Probably not, but maybe. If I had not taken the path of multi-tabling $5/$10 & $3/$6 to max out rake, I might now be playing one table of $30/$60 or $50/$100 and beat it for 1.5 BB/100 because I would be playing much better poker decisions on average.

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This is what happened to me. I came pre-rakeback and moved up much quicker.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]
We play poker after my Gamblers anonomous meeting. There are 6 of us that go play at one of the guys house. Once a month we have 2 strippers come over for an hour. I started going to the meetings to get in this game. Nothing like sitting with a bunch of gamblers playin poker. EV+ [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You are so going to hell:P

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

so how did your 100k hand challenge or whatever that was do for your game? seems you are making these decisions on a consistent basis.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
explain

[/ QUOTE ]

A more accurate statement would have been to say the more I tried to maximize the amount of my rakeback as opposed to playing fewer tables and attempting to make the best possible decision on each hand by considering all the information at my disposal has hurt my game.

I have little doubt that for me to play my very best poker, I should only play one table. Now does this mean I will earn more money if I took that path? Probably not, but maybe. If I had not taken the path of multi-tabling $5/$10 & $3/$6 to max out rake, I might now be playing one table of $30/$60 or $50/$100 and beat it for 1.5 BB/100 because I would be making much better poker decisions on average.

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...and this differs from your army concept how?

I don't understand the reason for you even starting this thead in the first place. Almost seems like self promotion of your site more than anything.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
explain

[/ QUOTE ]

A more accurate statement would have been to say the more I tried to maximize the amount of my rakeback as opposed to playing fewer tables and attempting to make the best possible decision on each hand by considering all the information at my disposal has hurt my game.

I have little doubt that for me to play my very best poker, I should only play one table. Now does this mean I will earn more money if I took that path? Probably not, but maybe. If I had not taken the path of multi-tabling $5/$10 & $3/$6 to max out rake, I might now be playing one table of $30/$60 or $50/$100 and beat it for 1.5 BB/100 because I would be making much better poker decisions on average.

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...and this differs from your army concept how?

I don't understand the reason for you even starting this thead in the first place. Almost seems like self promotion of your site more than anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand O'Doyle's situation. I've done the same type of "maximizing rake" thing at times. I play much better on a single table. However, I have played at certain sites to get the rakeback and often play up to five tables. I know I don't play as well.

I've done this at times because I know my ROR is tiny, due to the bonus/rakeback, but my expectation in actual games is low. In many ways (from a poker palyer's perspective) this makes no sense, but from a business person's standpoint, the successful lowering of risk for good results compared to excellent results is often the best option.

When Games Grid was offering their best VFP and Bonus, I knew I could grind out about $30 an hour plus my table win by playing four tables. However, even with my table win, I didn't make my hourly average in earnings. This would appear to be a mistake in judgement. I was enticed by the FREE money, but just hurt my monthly earnings. Any one disagree?

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

i agree. when i first started i chased bonuses for a few weeks. my play suffered horribly as i didnt discover the nuances of the individual games i was playing and the 'free money' hardly made up for it. needless to say, i didnt chase bonuses for all that long.

for me, i ascended the limit ranks quicker then if i had been bogged down by the trudgery of bonus hunting.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

I too agree. the first few days I started I earned a ton of rakeback, but I lost. I was so interested in the "free money" that I lost sight of the objetive of making money! Instead of jumping right to 4-6 tables I'm going to start over and slowly increase the number of tables. If I'm at 4 and I do OK then I'll go to 5. If I make too many mistakes at 5 I'll stay at 4. Of course I was playing every game under the sun too so I'll experiment w/ what works best.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]


I understand O'Doyle's situation. I've done the same type of "maximizing rake" thing at times. I play much better on a single table. However, I have played at certain sites to get the rakeback and often play up to five tables. I know I don't play as well.

I've done this at times because I know my ROR is tiny, due to the bonus/rakeback, but my expectation in actual games is low. In many ways (from a poker palyer's perspective) this makes no sense, but from a business person's standpoint, the successful lowering of risk for good results compared to excellent results is often the best option.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

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A problem for me too, but more with Bonus Whoring. The
risk of ruin pretty much dissappears, but I wind up playing
"safe games" just to clear the bonus. My BB/100 drops, and I
get worn out and frustrated playing more tbls at once than
I should. Should be moving up to where I don't NEED bonus.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

The solution is not to give up on rakeback and bonus, the solution is to use it as a weapon to make additional money.

You game should not change one bit! If you try to come up with reasons too, you are thinking too much for your own good.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

1) play the level that you're most comfortable with, and play well

2) find the best supplemental income opportunity that level provides, whether it be bonuses and/or rakeback. there is no one solution that will fit every kind of player.

3) move up when you can accurately calculate that you can make more money overall (actual play + bonus + rakeback) by doing so over whatever you're doing now.

simple, in that order.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

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The solution is not to give up on rakeback and bonus, the solution is to use it as a weapon to make additional money.

You game should not change one bit! If you try to come up with reasons too, you are thinking too much for your own good.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, but I never suggested giving up the perks.
What I said was I was not expanding my game. Playing lower
limits than I would be forced to play without the perks.
And I need to be moving up.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
changing your play to increase the R is -EV.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly true.

Lower rakes increase the number of starting hands that you can play profitably. Higher rakes decrease the number of starting hands you can play profitably.

So, it's not that you change your play to increase the Rakeback. It's because of rakeback that you would change your play. This change in play will actually increase the Rake that you would have payed before rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

If poker sites caculated your rake based upon the rake taken out of the pots that you actually won, then you should play more hands if you are getting some of that rake back. But since they don't calculate it that way, you should not play more hands, because you will will make more money on the hand by folding.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

You should not change your game for R***B.
I am constantly looking for leaks and holes in my game like most people here.

But when I started R***B a couple of months ago I had to make an effort to not let it throw my game off.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

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so how did your 100k hand challenge or whatever that was do for your game? seems you are making these decisions on a consistent basis.

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It didn't help my game. The addiction of rakeback is a hard one to break.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

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you will will make more money on the hand by folding.

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And this is exactly why the sweet addiction of rakeback is so to difficult break.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

Getting raped 1/4 less by the online sites is the best thing that ever happened to my poker game.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

If I didn't spend so much time trying to explain to Absolute that they need to divide before they add, I'd probably play more poker.

Re: Rakeback is the worst thing that ever happened to my poker game!
 

playing just for rakeback can seriously impede your development as all-around player. As you know rakeback rates for NLHE even up to $200 NL Full games are less than you will make at $3-6 Full. If you are playing just for rakeback and you dont already play NL you are seriously missing out on some of the best action at Party ie the $100,$200 NL 6MAX games-less so in the full games. If you just look at the rakeback numbers from NL --you would never play in these games.
A very good player playing $100 NL 6MAX will make an hourly earn that will crush the best $3-6 Full or 6MAx player's earn...but if you saw you only got 3-4 cents per 100 from NL vs say 5-6.50 cents for $3-6 you'd never play the game solely thinking about rakeback.

You should play in the games that offer you the best overall earn-sometimes that means playing in games away from Party with no rakeback ,sometimes that means PartyBBJ games w/ no rakeback..play where your overall earn is the best...You are costing yourself money if you play purely on rb and dont hunt for the best overall games.