Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

I get very frustrated with the notion of "charging flush draws." This post deals with this notion very well.

Ed Miller's "To those of you who want to charge flush draws"

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

psst... you could just bump the original

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

I thought it was in SS, and I wanted to make sure us microers get it.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

YOu could have just PM'ed me with this link rather then making it publicly known that I suck. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

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YOu could have just PM'ed me with this link rather then making it publicly known that I suck. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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This wasn't directed to you. I see "charge the flush draw" at least three times a day, and I'm not exaggerating. Everybody in micro needs this reminder (or new information), myself included.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

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YOu could have just PM'ed me with this link rather then making it publicly known that I suck. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Every poker player without exception has this preconception, as did I.

I raised and raised to 'push out flushes'. I didn't learn any better till EM came along and whipped me into line. Probably a good .25BB/100 in my false knowledge too.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

Another reason why I hate that book. Never realised this. Thankyou very much.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

i loved that post. luckily i found it early in my poker career.

note: the next step, however, is knowing when to bet even with the flush draw out there because you still want to make them pay to draw out on you.

this hand is a good example of learning when to call versus bet.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

I know about "charging" the flush draw....

I know about "pumping" the flush draw...

What I don't know is...

How to stop "another" players card from hitting when I "charge"...

And how to get "my" card to hit when I'm "pumping"... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

pattern maps my friend, pattern maps. all unnecessary pumping will stop, and charging will become elementary.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

thats something your parents should have discussed with you way back in the day. I will say this, you must learn to "protect", cause those crabs, they dont go away...

peace

john nickle

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

There is a such thing as charging flush draws!

The time to charge flush draws is on the turn when they aren't making money off all the bets that are going into the pot like they are on the flop. With multiway action on the flop all the money that goes in profits flush draws. It is therefore true that you are not charging them anything as they are in fact profitting. This is not necessarily the case when the pot is HU or on the turn ie when the action is HU, 3-way or even 4-way. At this point flush draws would love to see the river cheaply or for free. They aren't folding due to the pot odds but they don't want to put any money in unless the action is 3-way or better on the flop or 5-way or better on the turn. When they don't profit charge 'em I say! Charge 'em!

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

its probably better just to not describe it as "charging" a person for a flush draw. on the turn and river you bet out for value, because you will have the best hand with a much lower chance of being redrawn. either way, you cant charge them enough to make them go away, so just worry about other players in your hand. thinking about charging them multiway will just cause newer players develop FPS..and against 3 or 4 villians you want to play ABC.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
YOu could have just PM'ed me with this link rather then making it publicly known that I suck. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Every poker player without exception has this preconception, as did I.

I raised and raised to 'push out flushes'. I didn't learn any better till EM came along and whipped me into line. Probably a good .25BB/100 in my false knowledge too.

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LOL, it took me a good couple mins to realize you weren't telling him every poker player has the preconception that pistol78 sucked.

Yes, I do agree that most players had the preconception that they 'need to charge flush draws.' I think this stems from most of us learned by playing No Limit first, or watching NL on TV. Charging flush draws does have its place there, but it is not a very useful concept for limit poker.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

it seems like a semantic argument. you aren't "charging" the flush draw (unless you're heads up obviously) but you're still making money on each bet coming in if you've got best hand at that point. so don't check/call hands you should be betting/raising just because the flush draw is calling profitably.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

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At this point flush draws would love to see the river cheaply or for free. ...They don't want to put any money in unless the action is...5-way or better on the turn.

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Is there any advantage for a flush draw to bet with 4 opponents on the turn if you think they'll all call? Say they all called one already. Perhaps disguise value? The odds of making are 4.22:1, pretty close to 4.

Re: Ed Miller\'s post about \"Charging flush draws\"
 

Or, you could've just referenced the page number on the microlimits post collection!!

It's page 62, in case you were wondering.