New Orleans
 

I haven't been following the NO crisis too closely. But I see a lot of posts about how there isn't enough aid/help going to the area.

Is there any credible information on this. Like can I find a report saying something like there is food on a truck somewhere and its not being sent for some reason.

All I see is hearsay and conjecture.

Re: New Orleans
 

Link for answer

-Zeno

Re: New Orleans
 

No there is no credible evidence of anything.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Go back to what you were doing, don't give it another thought, and have a nice day.

This is an order from the HomeLand Security Department.

Re: New Orleans
 

Zeno is an actual person. He gave a link.

Your a spiteful ass. I'm not reading any of your posts anymore.

Re: New Orleans
 

NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boooooooooohoooooooooooo!!!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!

Re: New Orleans
 

Things seem to be going much better now that the regular Army is in control. It took them a while to get there because Bush was on vacation and didn't have time to give the order to deploy them.

You can watch pretty much any news channel to see what's going on there.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
Things seem to be going much better now that the regular Army is in control. It took them a while to get there because Bush was on vacation and didn't have time to give the order to deploy them.

You can watch pretty much any news channel to see what's going on there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you stop being such a Bush bashing moron. It is up to the civil authorities to request federal troops and the governor is the one who was apparently slow to ask. Plus although federal troops are coming in, a national guard Lt. General is apparently still in command of the multi-state guard units who are the ones there right now while federal troops are on the way. U.S. Law places great restrictions on the situations in which federal troops may be used within the states. And they couldn't just paradrop the 82nd in with minimal equipment since the troops need a lot of logistical support and it takes time to get it in place. We are talking about a few days here and not weeks. So try to be at least minimally objective. And don't forget the only reason a large federal troop presence is needed is due to criminal activity that stymied police and other civil authority from day 1. Blame them. Oh but you don't want to because they all vote your way. Sorry.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
And don't forget the only reason a large federal troop presence is needed is due to criminal activity that stymied police and other civil authority from day 1. Blame them. Oh but you don't want to because they all vote your way. Sorry

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, things really started getting out of hand when people were not give any food and water or medical care. FEMA made the brilliant decision to not let the Red Cross and other aid organizations into the city to help people. Then, when aid finally was delivered, people were so crazy from lack of food and water that situation became dangerous. The feds, led by Chimpy, dropped the ball.

Re: New Orleans
 

Yeah. The Red Cross and other organizations would just have waded through the eyeball deep water and the crossfire from the criminal scum and fed, clothed and medicated all the survivors on the rooftops. Yeah. Mean 'Ol FEMA.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is up to the civil authorities to request federal troops and the governor is the one who was apparently slow to ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just a bullshit excuse from right-wing nutjobs. The governor has likely not been through any natural disasters. It's FEMA's job to respond to situations like this. If FEMA sees what's going on and they don't call the governor and tell her what she should do then they aren't doing their job.

I do feel bad that the President had his vacation cut short. It really sucks when work problems cut your vacation short.

Re: New Orleans
 

Are you purposely misrepresenting things to further your political agenda or are you just dim? FEDERAL TROOPS CAN'T BE IMPOSED WITHOUT CIVIL REQUEST UNDER U.S. LAW EXCEPT IN CASES OF INVASION.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you purposely misrepresenting things to further your political agenda or are you just dim? FEDERAL TROOPS CAN'T BE IMPOSED WITHOUT CIVIL REQUEST UNDER U.S. LAW EXCEPT IN CASES OF INVASION.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I heard Bill O'Reilly blame all this on the governor of Louisiana last night. It doesn't surprise me that you right-wing nutjobs are just now coming out with who to blame because you didn't have your talking points until Bill delivered them to you last night.

As for me, I think I'll wait for an unbiased source to see what actually happened. One thing we know for sure is that Bush was on vacation until Tuesday and didn't reveal to the public how the feds were going to solve this problem until Thursday.

I guess that is an acceptably quick response to you. But, of course, you weren't down there dieing of dehydration and lack of food and medical care.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I heard Bill O'Reilly blame all this on the governor of Louisiana last night. It doesn't surprise me that you right-wing nutjobs are just now coming out with who to blame because you didn't have your talking points until Bill delivered them to you last night.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you actually followed news reports as the events occurred this point would have been obvious to you as well instead of your having to wait for liberal politicos to provide you your talking points.

[ QUOTE ]
One thing we know for sure is that Bush was on vacation until Tuesday and didn't reveal to the public how the feds were going to solve this problem until Thursday.

[/ QUOTE ]

All presidents, even your beloved Billy Boy Jimbob Clinton work on their "vacations". And the delays of civil authorities caused delays in announcement of federal plans.

[ QUOTE ]
But, of course, you weren't down there dieing of dehydration and lack of food and medical care.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except for the medical care part you just further show your ignorance or intentional use of mistatements. Why don't you just google and see how long a healthy person can live without food and water. Also the federal help that was there from day 1 like the coast guard was trying to evacuate people from the area and in fact has now evacuated close to 10K. How exactly did you think the Red Cross was going to get food and water to people on rooftops?

Plus you continue to ignore the security situation brought on from day 1 by criminals that prevented either local or federal response from being available in a more timely manner. Those lovely looters, rapists and murderers couldn't share any of the blame could they?

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you actually followed right-wing news reports as the events occurred this point would have been obvious to you as well instead of your having to wait for liberal politicos to provide you your talking points.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Re: New Orleans
 

I am reposting this quote of yours and post of mine from your other thread the aftermath of this disaster was well-known since you have not responded to it.


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The federal government's slow response to this disaster was pathetic. That is the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea. The immediate criminal lawlessness that ensued by the scum of society had nothing whatsoever to do with it. And the coast guard rescuing thousands of poeple doesn't count cause they're not really part of the federal government. And the mayor's inept evacuation didn't have anything to do with it either. Neither did the governor's failure to immediately declare martial law and seek federal troops. Yep. All Bush's fault. Oh yeah, and 3-5 days is a huge amount of time to take getting supplies in past the gang bangers cause truckloads of supplies were just sitting on the outskirts of N.O. like they are outside every major city just in case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
FEDERAL TROOPS CAN'T BE IMPOSED WITHOUT CIVIL REQUEST UNDER U.S. LAW EXCEPT IN CASES OF INVASION.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I remember the Arkansas Gov. requested the Federal Troops from Kennedy to help desegrate the High Schools.
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: New Orleans
 

Edit: OR TO EXECUTE FEDERAL LAW WHEN STATE AUTHORITIES HAVE FAILED/REFUSED TO DO SO.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
And they couldn't just paradrop the 82nd in with minimal equipment since the troops need a lot of logistical support and it takes time to get it in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even with elements of the 82nd deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, approximately 700 paratroopers are always on call to deploy anywhere in the world. Paratroopers from the 82nd can operate for days behind enemy lines without being resupplied. If the 82nd had gotten the call early Thursday morning, they would have been in NO late Thursday night helping to establish security.

Here, try the relevant one.
 

R.S.5298 provides, "Whenever by reason of unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages of persons, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, it shall become impracticable, in the JUDGMENT OF THE PRESIDENT, to enforce, by the ordinary laws of judicial procedure, the laws of the United States within any State or Territory, it shall be lawful for the President . to employ such part of the land and naval forces of the United States as he may deem necessary to enforce the lawful execution of the laws of the United States ."

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
since the troops need a lot of logistical support and it takes time to get it in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

since the troops need a lot of logistical support and it takes time to get it in place.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[/ QUOTE ]


The 82nd brings with it any logistical support it needs. That's how they operate for days behind enemy lines without resupply.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FEDERAL TROOPS CAN'T BE IMPOSED WITHOUT CIVIL REQUEST UNDER U.S. LAW EXCEPT IN CASES OF INVASION.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I remember the Arkansas Gov. requested the Federal Troops from Kennedy to help desegrate the High Schools.
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I see you are a bit shaky on your history there. It was a Republican President who sent the guard to Little Rock. I'll let you figure out which one.

Re: New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
The governor has likely not been through any natural disasters.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never known a flight attendant who had experience with a plane crash either -- but they are trained to act correctly if they're about to learn.

Re: New Orleans
 

newfant -

Are you available for study? I'd like to throw some evidence to the opponents of intelligent design.

Re: Here, try the relevant one.
 

[ QUOTE ]
...it shall be lawful for the President . to employ such part of the land and naval forces of the United States as he may deem necessary to enforce the lawful execution of the laws of the United States ."


[/ QUOTE ]
And the federal law that was being violated?

Re: New Orleans
 

What are you two arguing about? My dad can beat your dad? Of course the US could have had troops in there. Legally? It depends if they were asked.

Re: New Orleans
 

No, if the President orders it, they go.

Dodging The Lie
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see you are a bit shaky on your history there. It was a Republican President who sent the guard to Little Rock. I'll let you figure out which one.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you trying to say that the Arkansas Gov. requested the troops from the Republican President? Or are you just ignoring the original point? Or are you trying to say that only Republican Presidents can send Troops to States?

Re: New Orleans
 

That's a fact.

And if he ordered them to Toronto, they would go as well. But he's not going to do it without a clear understanding and invitation.

Re: New Orleans
 

I agree with you that we could have had troops in NO sooner. BluffTHIS! posted that the military needs time to gather logistical support for the troops. All I pointed out was that the 82nd Airborne Division can deploy on short notice without a huge logistical tail.

Re: New Orleans
 

No, maybe to Toronto the President would have some legal hurdles... But within the borders of the U.S. he has the legal right, and doesn't need a gold edged engraved notorized "invitation"

[ QUOTE ]
"Whenever by reason of unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages of persons, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, it shall become impracticable, in the JUDGMENT OF THE PRESIDENT, to enforce, by the ordinary laws of judicial procedure, the laws of the United States within any State or Territory, it shall be lawful for the President . to employ such part of the land and naval forces of the United States as he may deem necessary to enforce the lawful execution of the laws of the United States ."


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Here, try the relevant one.
 

Since NO had decayed into a State of general Anarchy and lawlessness, and it is a major port city ....

Interstate Commerce, of course!

Re: Dodging The Lie
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see you are a bit shaky on your history there. It was a Republican President who sent the guard to Little Rock. I'll let you figure out which one.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you trying to say that the Arkansas Gov. requested the troops from the Republican President? Or are you just ignoring the original point? Or are you trying to say that only Republican Presidents can send Troops to States?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you wasting our time adding modifications to my statement? Are you trying to put words in my mouth?

My actual statement is correct.

Re: New Orleans
 

I think BGC is trying to read a "competence" or "non-moronic" requirement into the statute. In his mind, the statute reads as follows:

"Whenever by reason of unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages of persons, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, it shall become impracticable, in the JUDGMENT OF A COMPETENT PRESIDENT, to enforce, by the ordinary laws of judicial procedure, the laws of the United States within any State or Territory, it shall be lawful for the President . to employ such part of the land and naval forces of the United States as he may deem necessary to enforce the lawful execution of the laws of the United States."


If he interprets the statute that way then I can totally see how he can justify Chimpy's actions.

Smoke Screening The LIE
 

Okay. SO we agree. The President does not need "permission" or an "invitation" from a Gov. in order to send troops to a State.

So, people trying to give lack of invitation, as a reason for the delay of the timely deployment of National Guards, are LYING. The delay was because of Washington being slow accessing the situation and sending them.

Re: New Orleans
 

Didn't you even read the law you guys are quoting? It is about rebelion and obstruction of the federal law enforcement power.

Governor Blanco did not rebel or obstruct the federal government, so Bush had no cause to supress her rebelion or obstruction.

She just failed to plan and act competently to the emergency situation. And the feds are cleaning up her mess.

Re: Smoke Screening The LIE
 

[ QUOTE ]
Okay. SO we agree. The President does not need "permission" or an "invitation" from a Gov. in order to send troops to a State.

So, people trying to give lack of invitation, as a reason for the delay of the timely deployment of National Guards, are LYING. The delay was because of Washington being slow accessing the situation and sending them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you even read the law you guys are quoting? It is about rebelion and obstruction of the federal law enforcement power.

Governor Blanco did not rebel or obstruct the federal government, so Bush had no cause to supress her rebelion or obstruction.

She just failed to plan and act competently to the emergency situation. And the feds are cleaning up her mess.

Re: Smoke Screening The LIE
 

Did you even read the law yourself?

Were you aware of the situation in N.O.? The city had decayed into anarchy.

[ QUOTE ]
Whenever by reason of unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages of persons, or rebellion against the authority of the United States ...

[/ QUOTE ]

The law has nothing to do with, or is exclusive to, actions by the Gov.

Twisting the LIE
 

[ QUOTE ]
combinations or assemblages of persons

[/ QUOTE ]

Read that part of the law. How does that translate to being exclusive to tryanical acts of a Governor being the only thing to trigger this power?

Re: Smoke Screening The LIE
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did you even read the law yourself?

Were you aware of the situation in N.O.? The city had decayed into anarchy.

[ QUOTE ]
Whenever by reason of unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages of persons, or rebellion against the authority of the United States ...

[/ QUOTE ]

The law has nothing to do with, or is exclusive to, actions by the Gov.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you measure the arrival of the guard from once the anarchy took over NO, their arrival was quite quick (in fact some were already there). So Bush was super quick in his response to the anarchy, and we can all agree that he did a great job. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]