Question for Riverboatking
 

I was reviewing one of your past hands, and I was hoping to get your thought process. I'll give the action, but not the opponent's cards or results so others can follow along. Anyway, I appreciate if you can share what's going in your head as I was quite baffled. Any insight you have is appreciated.

Thanks,

Garland

Location: Bicycle Casino
Players:
Kim (undetermined stack amount) -- ok passive tightish player
Frank ($6175)-- tricky trapping tightish player
Riverboatking (covers) –- Loose aggressive thinking player, definitely a winner in this game
Stakes: $10/$20 NL

Preflop action:

Kim calls, Frank calls, Riverboatking raises to $125 on button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], blinds fold, Kim calls, Frank calls.

Flop (pot = $405): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Kim checks, Frank checks, Riverboatking bets $400, Kim thinks, but Frank has a tell that he’s going to call, so Kim folds. Frank calls.

Turn (pot = $1205): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Frank checks, Riverboatking bets $900, Frank calls.

River (pot = $3005): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Frank checks, Riverboatking bets $1000, Frank check-raises for $4750, Riverboatking calls.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

wow.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

That is awesome.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

[ QUOTE ]
That is awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. Player A bets 1/3 pot on the river after betting/getting called on flop & turn. Player B check-raises all in. Player A calls w/A high. I don't see how that is awesome.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

so riverboat obv thinks frank has 2 unpaired cards lower than a J ....there has to be some read he has that we cant see, of course, riverboat is playing live with him, and there must be some sort of history with the two. Tc8c? or did riverboat pick something up earlier that would give some sort of hint that frank was going to pull off a multi-street bluff?

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

He called a pot sized check/raise on river with AK hgih.

Assuming he had good reasoning behind this play, and thought that he was likely good... that's pretty awesome.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

Pretty sick call, but unless you are aking the most insane value bet ever, why not just check river? If he called the big CR he obv. believes he has alot of showdown value, so why put yourself in a spot where you might make a really bad call. If you really put villan on nothing, a bet will geenrally just get a fold, so unless he planned to induce a bluff and call, I think checking river makes alot more sense.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

Perhaps his AK high was good. And maybe he had some great read live that led him to believe it was. More power to him if he was right.
However, my point was that if this hand had been posted just by some random person, and the last line was asking what hero should do on the river after being check/raised, just about everyone would say fold.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

Standard.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

I think the most interesting question is, was the river a bluff that turned into a value bet-call?

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uh, no. Player A bets 1/3 pot on the river after betting/getting called on flop & turn. Player B check-raises all in. Player A calls w/A high. I don't see how that is awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, my point was that if this hand had been posted just by some random person, and the last line was asking what hero should do on the river after being check/raised, just about everyone would say fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point was not at all obvious from your previous comment.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

As scdavis just posted, my thought is that the river bet was a bluff and then he got a read that made him decide that he had the best hand.

Additional note...
 

Riverboatking took practically no time to call the river check-raise all-in.

Garland

Re: Additional note...
 

that's a cruel bluff induce on the river

probably made the guy quit poker

musta had a nice read to take that river action. awesome.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

Look at the board. Does any hand that is not a full house checkraise this river for value? None that the villain could have (namely, some 6). Could villain have a fullhouse? There is a flush draw and a straight draw on the flop, and the turn brings another flush draw, so a set is extremely unlikely. So villain basically can't have a fullhouse.

So villain is bluffing. Most of these bluffs won't contain a pair because that would require villain to have some crazy trash hand. J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] x [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is one of very few reasonable holdings that could contain a pair (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] are taken), but would he checkraise the river with a jack as a bluff?

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

Did we ever get results? Riverboatking, want to chime in here? Also, please explain your thinking.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look at the board. Does any hand that is not a full house checkraise this river for value? None that the villain could have (namely, some 6). Could villain have a fullhouse? There is a flush draw and a straight draw on the flop, and the turn brings another flush draw, so a set is extremely unlikely. So villain basically can't have a fullhouse.

So villain is bluffing. Most of these bluffs won't contain a pair because that would require villain to have some crazy trash hand. J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] x [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is one of very few reasonable holdings that could contain a pair (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] are taken), but would he checkraise the river with a jack as a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the villian c/r'ing allin with the 6c makes sense.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

Yeah, 56 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 67 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would work also.

Re: Question for Riverboatking
 

garland please clarify something...is this the hand that took place on L@TB?

and if it is it wasn't a checkraise on the river the announcers just got the action wrong...i pushed the river...however because i had verbally declared all-in on the river and didn't toss the 5K chip into the pot until after i was called the commentators incorrectly stated that i called a checkraise all-in.

sorry to dissapoint all you guys who were hoping i made some kind of sick read...while i have made some pretty big calls with pretty marginal holdings this wasn't the case here.

Results...
 

[ QUOTE ]
garland please clarify something...is this the hand that took place on L@TB?

and if it is it wasn't a checkraise on the river the announcers just got the action wrong...i pushed the river...however because i had verbally declared all-in on the river and didn't toss the 5K chip into the pot until after i was called the commentators incorrectly stated that i called a checkraise all-in.

sorry to dissapoint all you guys who were hoping i made some kind of sick read...while i have made some pretty big calls with pretty marginal holdings this wasn't the case here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this happened at Live At The Bike about 5 or 6 months ago. I only have the announcers and what I see on the screen to go by. It appeared that you put one chip out on the river, the announcers said $1K bet and Frank moved all his chips to the middle and that you called.

Now it's apparent that you pushed the river, which makes more sense. I didn't think a $1K bluff made much sense into a $3K pot. You must have put Frank on a weak J that you were trying to push him off of.

I guess I would have played it differently on the turn by checking. I'm drawing live with the nut flush draw and overs, and I'd prefer not to get check-raised all-in right there. However, you probably had a read that Frank was weak so you tried to take it down right there.

Results: Frank shows Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the win. (Kim had pocket 8s)

Thank you, riverboatking, for making sense of this hand. It was bothering me for a few weeks (it's one of the hands that gets played over and over when Live At The Bike isn't on air).

Garland

Re: Results...
 

Yeah I screwed that hand up sorry Riverboat King and Garland..... Those hands play out so fast sometimes and that episode aired in the period before we had someone on the floor to help us with those type of action questions. Hope to see you on a wednesday or Friday coming up on Live at the Bike.

Re: Results...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I screwed that hand up sorry Riverboat King and Garland..... Those hands play out so fast sometimes and that episode aired in the period before we had someone on the floor to help us with those type of action questions. Hope to see you on a wednesday or Friday coming up on Live at the Bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

no problem bart, all in all you do a great job commentating.
its great when you and dave are working together...much better then any commentating i see on tv...including WPT and WSOP.

Re: Results...
 

The power of television!

Re: Results...
 

Thanks Riverboat,

I've always been a fan of your play--especially 25os vs 35os vs Vic!--and and I love the fans at Live at the Bike. The three of us really enjoy doing the show and we hope that there will be commentating opportunities for us in the furture.

Bart

Re: amusing
 

A strange amount of praise given for the river call. Just because a great player does it; it doesn't make it good.

Re: Results...
 

Bart,

What was the date for this game and if you can remember how far ito the show was riverboatking's hand.

Re: Results...
 

[ QUOTE ]

What was the date for this game and if you can remember how far ito the show was riverboatking's hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can take this since I was so engrossed by this hand. It occurred on May 20th, 2005 about 42 minutes into the show.

In addition, I made a mistake reporting this hand in that riverboatking was actually in the hijack (2 off button), and not on button. Not that it matters that much.

Garland

Re: Additional note...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Riverboatking took practically no time to call the river check-raise all-in.

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that RBK has a strong read that Villian doesn't slowplay to the river.