Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

You know the BB is a 2+2er and he knows your tendancies. He tends to think you get a little out of line on the aggressive side and as a result has paid you off for some good hands in the past. He also knows you are a very thoughtful and professional player, so he does respect your play though.

You open in the Button at a 6-handed NL table with $20 stacks (which are still close to their buy-in value) and 10c blinds. You raise with A9 to 40 cents.

The SB folds, and the BB (the opponent described above) thinks for a second and calls.

The flop is QJ5, rainbow I think.

He checks, you bet 50 cents. He raises now $1 for a total of $1.50. The pot is $2.85 and it costs you $1 to call.

What's your move and why?

This hand requires a considerable amount of thought to understand, so take your time with it.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

YSSCKY

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

Easy fold. You almost certainly have the worst hand and no draw. He may do this with KT or 9T, but in those cases, he's only slightly behind.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

you reraise to induce an all in push bluff because villain is Xorbie.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
YSSCKY

[/ QUOTE ]

That was uncalled for. Unless you were the BB

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

serious opinion.

if this guy was really a good 2+2 player and he took this small limit seriously, there is almost no way he has a monster here because he would likely try to bet/3bet this flop.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
serious opinion.

if this guy was really a good 2+2 player and he took this small limit seriously, there is almost no way he has a monster here because he would likely try to bet/3bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a hugely important part of this post. Hit the nail on the head.

So what does Hero do then?

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
serious opinion.

if this guy was really a good 2+2 player and he took this small limit seriously, there is almost no way he has a monster here because he would likely try to bet/3bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a hugely important part of this post. Hit the nail on the head.

So what does Hero do then?

[/ QUOTE ]

REraise of course [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
serious opinion.

if this guy was really a good 2+2 player and he took this small limit seriously, there is almost no way he has a monster here because he would likely try to bet/3bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a hugely important part of this post. Hit the nail on the head.

So what does Hero do then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call the raise, bet the turn if checked to, raise the turn if bet to.

flop 3 bet looks a little fishy here if you really have a monster.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
you reraise to induce an all in push bluff because villain is Xorbie.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

Even if we stipulate our opponent is weak, he may still be punishing the continuation bet with a better hand than A-high. If we're ahead, he will have lots of outs, and may have tainted ours.

OP says the opponent thinks he's getting out of line, and being on the button gives him even less credibility than usual. The call flop, raise turn line risks about $8 to win about 13; BB has to puss out more than half the time. Meanwhile, we have 80 cents invested in the pot. Why get involved?

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

is this a joke post? maybe i'm daft, but this is a clear fold to me, and why is a "pro" playing a .10c blind game and why are you trying to outfox him out of $20? i'm lost.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
serious opinion.

if this guy was really a good 2+2 player and he took this small limit seriously, there is almost no way he has a monster here because he would likely try to bet/3bet this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a hugely important part of this post. Hit the nail on the head.

So what does Hero do then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell, I'd shove. Then show. Now overbet if you hit a hand in the next few minutes. Especially if you flop it.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

Thank you. I was going to ask the same thing.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
nd why is a "pro" playing a .10c blind game and why are you trying to outfox him out of $20?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the 'pro' lives in Mongolia, each one of those .25 BB could be a dinner!

You think this is tricky, you should see the $2 tables. Tricky, tricky, tricky competition. Let's just say the $1.04 I made was well earned!

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
is this a joke post? maybe i'm daft, but this is a clear fold to me, and why is a "pro" playing a .10c blind game and why are you trying to outfox him out of $20? i'm lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

No joke. It's a local game for fun with friends, where only two of us are any good. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (edit: and of course, this isn't the regular game we play at. The pro plays online and so do I)

I'm actually the BB in this hand. The Button is a full-time player who really knows his [censored], generally. He also likes to get super aggressive with me when we play at these little home games. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (Stakes relatively small, friendly banter, etc.)

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
YSSCKY

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused.

Like, I know what this stands for, but I'm confused.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
is this a joke post? maybe i'm daft, but this is a clear fold to me, and why is a "pro" playing a .10c blind game and why are you trying to outfox him out of $20? i'm lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did that vaccuum your brain or something? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Amoeba's line is well thought out, but requires a pretty heavy investment. I don't know if I like it, especially since there's a ton of cards that can show up and kill hero and you wouldn't really have a way of knowing. This play also lets a free card fall if villain was on a draw.

His thinking lines up with mine, but I'm not sure what to do in this case.

I can only speculate about Adam and his crazy friends, but I'd say that maybe if it were an LHE pro playing a $20 NLHE cash game live for fun, learning experience (fairly tight game), and gloating rights.

Unless he just wants to play "deep stacks". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

--Dave.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
YSSCKY

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused.

Like, I know what this stands for, but I'm confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, now I know.

Okay then.

Still, a little extreme.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
YSSCKY

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused.

Like, I know what this stands for, but I'm confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, now I know.

Okay then.

Still, a little extreme.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, it was my recommendation to post it in mid/high because hero/villain weren't donks, which is essentially defining SS NLHE, but for the mid-high crowd, we definitely ARE donks. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Your YSSCKY suggestion was duly noted and rejected.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

I thought this was a joke post, hard to believe pros are playing with 10 cent blinds. I see now you were serious. My sincere apologies.

Also, I thought when you said "This hand requires a considerable amount of thought, so take your time with it." you were either
A)Being a condescending [censored], in which case I was offended
B)Reaffirming that this was indeed a joke post, in which case I was annoyed.

Still, sorry, shoulda tried to clarify before being an ass.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

Pro play at 10c blinds table?
what a waste of time and talent!

I am not a pro. I am playing at $200 ($1/$2) NL tables.
I moved up from NL25 to NL200.
If you cannot do that, don't be a pro.
8BB/hour=80cents/hour
You can make more money anywhere else.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nd why is a "pro" playing a .10c blind game and why are you trying to outfox him out of $20?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the 'pro' lives in Mongolia, each one of those .25 BB could be a dinner!

You think this is tricky, you should see the $2 tables. Tricky, tricky, tricky competition. Let's just say the $1.04 I made was well earned!

[/ QUOTE ]

vnh

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pro play at 10c blinds table?
what a waste of time and talent!

I am not a pro. I am playing at $200 ($1/$2) NL tables.
I moved up from NL25 to NL200.
If you cannot do that, don't be a pro.
8BB/hour=80cents/hour
You can make more money anywhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]

5c 10c blinds... that THE grind [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I thought when you said "This hand requires a considerable amount of thought, so take your time with it." you were either
A)Being a condescending [censored], in which case I was offended
B)Reaffirming that this was indeed a joke post, in which case I was annoyed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Knowing the poster (being his best friend), I'll come to his defense here...

While I totally understand how you could see that as condescending, keep in mind that we're limit players, and for US, it does require a lot of thought. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


He was being quite serious at the time, and sincere, just so you know.
--Dave.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

Hey guys, does anyone have any preference between Amoeba's (and I respect this guy) line:

calling and raising / betting the turn

Or what I did, which was to shovel maybe $3 more in there, could have been $2 more though, but I think three.

(I was hero in this hand, villain was Adam)

--Dave.

To me, the idea of making a much larger turn bet, plus scary cards and land (including a jack, which I formerly would have been able to make fold), is really um... disheartening? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But if it has to be done, I guess I could do it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

it really doesn't matter I think if villain is checkraising with not much.

Re: Unique steal situation. A pro and another guy who\'s pretty good.
 

Hey all,

Just wanted to say, I didn't think Dave played it well until afterward when he explained it to me. After recognizing it as pretty advanced (this is 4th level thinking here) I thought he should post it. He suggested I post it in the Mid-High stakes forum because that's where people would most likely appreciate the depth of the play.

Sorry for ruffling feathers, to me this hand is God-like, but most everything is for a peon such as myself. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Carry on... nothing to see here. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]