Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

I have never seen so many people picking up on tells and being right so often on an episdoe as i have on this episode. It was scary! They musta all read caro's book of tells.

I only saw a little over an hour of last half but the hands that come to mind are these.

Lee raises Gabriel(or whatever his name is) reraises 92off??(musta had a HUGE tell on this guy to make this play) then its up to jennifer and she think for a second and looking at gabriel and all of a sudden she jumped(she picked up on something for sure that she then knew he was on a stone bluff) she then stood up and was deciding whether it was worth coming back over the top or gamblinf for what she had left if called because she knew he was weak. And her and gabriel musta knew lee was weak. He(lee) musta been doing something that was easy to pick up on. He was the most inexpereinced by far. Anyway she mucked(she had nothing by the way). But her reaction while looking at gabriel was scary. If you watch it again look for it.(maybe i'm jumping to conclusion, and i only saw it once but thats what it looked like to me).

The jean bellerde bets flop lee raises jean moves in lee has to muck(this one not so impressive as jean may have done that even without a read just hoping lee was screwing around. But nonetheless a correct read. Not to mention Lee reading jean for not having a hand on the flop either.

Jennifer raises k10s lee reraises A rag Jenn moves in. Again i think she had a pretty good read on him as she didnt even think about this play. And usually she deliberates so i feel she was farily confident he was weak and making a play.

I don't put emphasis on reads as much as other people do. Daniel says he doesn't either. But i think in NL it can be very important as once you have the read down it can pay huge dividends even if on only one big hand. Not to mention many others. But was going on at that final table? Did everybody take an esp pill that night?

Btw, to change the subject isn't jennifer the sweetest and cutest high limit poker player there is? I mean she genuinely comes off like a very nice and cool person. She doesn't have the chip on her shoulder that alot of the other players do.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Lee had tons of tells. JR Bellande had tons of tells. It was really sad. It was amateur night. I doubt we'll see that J.R. Bellande ever again, he's not that good of a player at all, just caught a couple great hands when other people had nice hands as well. Wasn't impressed with Doug Lee either.

Harman owned this table, unfortunantly she couldn't catch the cards to acquire enough chips to make it happen.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

I even picked up a tell on Ivey when he moved all in with his 9-5.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Bellarde has an uncanny ability to amass a ton of chip in tounrmants even very ealry on. I'm sure he bust outs early many times as well. And even when he does get these huge chips ealry i bet he blows it by getting involded in spots top players wouldn't if the few times i have seen him blow huge stacks(and the way he blew them) is any indication. But he is very dangerous and a terror once he gets some chips and i think you will definately see him again. And he would be right up there with one of the last people i would want on my left with a big stack. Although also you best chance of doubling up(besdies hon "kamikazee" le). But forget about trying to stela his blind or anyone else blind for that matter if he's on your left. Shut it down!

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

not sure if this was heads up or 3 ppl left. but Lee hit top set of jacks on the flop. jen checks he checks. the turn is an ace and harman bets out something like 100,000. lee checkraises, how much im not quite sure. harman folds and says almost immediately "trip jacks"

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

No.. Lee turned his cards over and showed her, then she said Trip Jacks.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

wow, oops. was playing poker while i was watching so i must've missed him turning over the cards.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lee raises Gabriel(or whatever his name is) reraises 92off??(musta had a HUGE tell on this guy to make this play) then its up to jennifer and she think for a second and looking at gabriel and all of a sudden she jumped(she picked up on something for sure that she then knew he was on a stone bluff) she then stood up and was deciding whether it was worth coming back over the top or gamblinf for what she had left if called because she knew he was weak. And her and gabriel musta knew lee was weak. He(lee) musta been doing something that was easy to pick up on. He was the most inexpereinced by far. Anyway she mucked(she had nothing by the way). But her reaction while looking at gabriel was scary. If you watch it again look for it.(maybe i'm jumping to conclusion, and i only saw it once but thats what it looked like to me).

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure Jennifer had AK. The commentators complimented her on her "read" (she seemed to indicate she thought they both had nothing), but the fact is, she still didn't act on it with a premium hand.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

No not at all. I don't know what hand you are talking about wiht Ak i did not see that hand. The hand i'm referring to i believe lee had A rag, gabriel 92 off, jenn a j8 off or something like that. If she had Ak in this hand with how much she wanted to play given she sensed weakness all around she woulda moved for sure.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Lee has the button and raises with A8o. Gabriel hesitates, play acts and reraises with 92o.

Jennifer had Ad Kh (or Ah Kd, they were both red but not suited).

Bellande said he was going over the top with AJ or better and looked down at Q6o.

Lee folds and shows the Ace at which point Jennifer knew she made a mistake.

She shoulda won anyway, Lee caught that 3rd ten....

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

I mean she was just casually looking at gabriel then she jumped. Like she was thinking oh shi* he did the thing with his eyes like he always does when he's bluffing. Or for those of you who saw the movie House of Games with joe mantenga "he played with his ring".

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Are you sure it was Ak? I thought it was a very marginal hand like j8 off. Maybe your right though i was just waking up and maybe saw it wrong.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No not at all. I don't know what hand you are talking about wiht Ak i did not see that hand. The hand i'm referring to i believe lee had A rag, gabriel 92 off, jenn a j8 off or something like that. If she had Ak in this hand with how much she wanted to play given she sensed weakness all around she woulda moved for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re-watch the hand. Jennifer had AK when Thaler re-raised with 92. It seemed like a pretty bad laydown given what her supposed read was. Her read could not have been *that* strong to lay down a hand like that.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I even picked up a tell on Ivey when he moved all in with his 9-5.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I thought I did too, and I have no experience with live play.

But I could very easily just be fooling myself.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Hand on the cards.. Almost to the point where you are ready to flip them over.

When a person moves all-in, and they don't move their hand from there cards.. that is a HUGE tell.

I know, because I have it myself.. I do this same exact thing when I don't want to be called.

I was stunned to see Ivey doing this. I highly doubt it was a "reverse-ploy", because most of the table was very unsophisticated, including J.R. Bellande.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Jennifer had AK, I thought it was a poor move on her part but always looks worse when you see the cards. Can't fault her too much, she captured second.

Why Phil tried to bluff Bellande is beyond me, the dude showed he wasn't going to lay down, Phil was just card dead and frustrated.

Bellande's problem is he only has one gear, BLAST... After successfully blasting people out of pots you have to slow down a bit and show down a hand or two. People were just waiting for him to bluff at the wrong time.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

She did have AK on the hand that you are talking about. It really suprised me that she didn't move in there as well (I believe she was the short stack).

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Yes, everyone did indeed re-read their copies of Mike Caro's Book of Tells prior to their final table appearance. I thought it was glaringly obvious but thanks for sharing Smoothcall.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

I did not see this, but apparently you guys are talking about Gabe Thaler in this thread. I wish you all the best of luck exploiting Gabe's obvious tells and amateurish play. Sounds like a great plan to me. "LOL"

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

Reading further in the thread, let me clarify what you guys are saying.

Gabe and some other dude both dsiplay obvious tells that they are weak. Jen Harman sees this and it is obvious from her action that she knows they are very weak. She then proceeds to muck AK.

Good stuff.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

????? Why the hostility hold me?

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

I didn't say he played amateurish and had obvious tells. Remember what you said to me in our last thread in the MTT section? Don't make assumptions without enough info or whatever you said.

In fact i almost started a post on Gabe asking the question. Is this guy one of the most underrated players?

All i said was on this particular hand Jennifer H. acted like she picked up a tell on him. I may have mistaken her tell pickup for her reaction to her hand and not on any tell. But then bellerde said jenn must have picked up something on you guys so i am moving in with Aj or better. But if she did pick up a tell i don't see why she wouldn't have moved in. Unless she just decided to let them but heads anyway even though she thought they were weak.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

"Why Phil tried to bluff Bellande is beyond me, the dude showed he wasn't going to lay down, Phil was just card dead and frustrated.

Bellande's problem is he only has one gear, BLAST... After successfully blasting people out of pots you have to slow down a bit and show down a hand or two. People were just waiting for him to bluff at the wrong time. "

Bellande limped into this pot with AT. It's exactly because he has been blasting and wasn't blasting this time Ivey made the move, I would assume. If you would listen to him, Bellande almost folded but then said he had a feeling he had the better hand. Neither actions seem too unreasonable.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

I didn't know she had Ak. I was half asleep watching it and thought she had j8 off. But apparently it was Ak so i agree its less likely a tell she had on him.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

I was responding to the whole thread, not just your post(s).

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

This isnt some observation of a poster. If I remember correctly Harman made some comment that she thought both of them were full of it. The commentators also pointed this out, noting that Harman must have seen something weak (thus is wasn't just their own opinion). So yes, your sarcastic retelling of the event is exactly correct. The only two explanations why she folded were
1) Lee had been making loose calls all night, and she didn't want to get all in in a possible coinflip or other race type hand or
2) ESPN was lying about what she had

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

[ QUOTE ]
This isnt some observation of a poster. If I remember correctly Harman made some comment that she thought both of them were full of it. The commentators also pointed this out, noting that Harman must have seen something weak (thus is wasn't just their own opinion). So yes, your sarcastic retelling of the event is exactly correct. The only two explanations why she folded were
1) Lee had been making loose calls all night, and she didn't want to get all in in a possible coinflip or other race type hand or
2) ESPN was lying about what she had

[/ QUOTE ]

3) She had no real read and was just making table-talk or was trying to get a read by saying some stuff and getting a reaction.

I've said stuff like "Man, you guys are weak" or "I should come over the top of your crap hand" or "I know you are reraising with air" countless times. When I actually am saying that because I have a real read, my actions follow accordingly. Jen plays at the highest level, so I'm sure she would have no problem following through if she had a real read.

The fact of the matter here is that, based on the events as have been described in this thread, they point more to her not being able to get a good read.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

[ QUOTE ]
JR Bellande had tons of tells. It was really sad. It was amateur night. I doubt we'll see that J.R. Bellande ever again, he's not that good of a player at all, just caught a couple great hands when other people had nice hands as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops!

19-Jun-05 United States $ 2,000 Seven Card Stud Hi/Lo
36th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2005, Las Vegas 22nd $ 3,080
06-Jun-05 United States $ 1,500 Omaha Hi/Lo
36th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2005, Las Vegas 44th $ 2,895
23-May-05 United States $ 10,000 WPT No Limit Hold'em Championship
2005 Mirage Poker Showdown, Las Vegas 15th $ 30,494
11-Apr-05 United States $ 2,000 No Limit Hold'em
Third Annual Five-Star World Poker Classic, Las Vegas 2nd $ 123,385
27-Mar-05 United States $ 2,500 No Limit Hold'em
2005 Winnin' o' the Green, Los Angeles 1st $ 148,000
20-Mar-05 United States $ 10,000 WSOP Circuit Championship Event - No Limit Hold'em
Rio Las Vegas Poker Festival, Las Vegas 3rd $ 210,900

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Harman owned this table, unfortunantly she couldn't catch the cards to acquire enough chips to make it happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

What??? If she wins the hand she went out on as the big favorite (when her opponent catches one of the 2 10's left in the deck on the river) she has plenty of chips.

And yes she is a great example of demeanor on the felt.

KC

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

If you play in a enough tournaments, you'll finish ITM.

This guy has a sharp aggressive style, and that'll get you part of the way there.. but he's very far from being a good polished poker player..

If played in dozens of tournaments a year, I would have a couple final table.

The guy is a chump.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

How do you know how many tourneys this guy has played?

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

My sarcastic retelling of the events? Show me where i was sarcastic? I'm not saying this in a mean way. I just don't remember being sarcastic. I was genuinely impressed by everybody reading everybody it was spooky.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

Sponger,

Most will not agree with this guy saying we will not see Jean again. Don't waste your time with him.

Your stats are enough to say Jean is a winning player. He may not be in the class of Daniel, Jennifer, along with other pros, but a winning player he is.

KC

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

I noticed what I thought was a tell. It was a shot at Bellande, over Lee's shoulder. While Bellande was pondering what to do I saw Lee look at his chips several times, and he ended up either raising Bellande's bet, or betting after it was checked to him, because he had a hand. It may have been the hand where he minimum raised with KK on the button, so his hand was already given away to a degree anyway...

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

While i like Jenn i wouldn't say she owned the table by any means. I would say she played the most careful and put herself in a good position to finish 2nd or 3rd and still have a fighting chance to win. Which is the same way i would played it. But i wouldn't say i owned the table because i stayed out of the way. And right before that qq's hand she got it all in with q7 against lees' q9 and she sucked out a 7 on the turn. So that works both ways.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No.. Lee turned his cards over and showed her, then she said Trip Jacks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone else remember it this way? I got the impression it was her read as well, especially given the sheepish look on his face when she said it.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No.. Lee turned his cards over and showed her, then she said Trip Jacks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone else remember it this way? I got the impression it was her read as well, especially given the sheepish look on his face when she said it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she thought he had 3 jacks, then the 100K turn bet was pretty foolish...

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

I know, she got drawn out on in the heads-up match.

But I think if she could have caught some hands earlier, and had a bigger stack going into the final 3, she would have rolled those two clowns.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
 

Definently positive that Lee flipped over his cards.. I remember him doing it, and Harman wasn't even paying attention for a bit (she was playing with her chips or something), and then she finally looked up and saw it and said, "Trip Jacks" and nodded her head in a matter of fact manner.

Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you play in a enough tournaments, you'll finish ITM.

This guy has a sharp aggressive style, and that'll get you part of the way there.. but he's very far from being a good polished poker player..

If played in dozens of tournaments a year, I would have a couple final table.

The guy is a chump.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's assume you're right, and that he's played in "dozens" of tournements this year. Let's say that the average buyin was 2500. 36*2500=90,000. Eyeballing his cashes, he's won over 500,000 this year.

I wish I was a chump player like that.