Flopping quads choice
 

I have 77 on the button. Party 15/30 OK table. MP is about 30/10, CO is 17/8. Or something like that, neither are terrible.

This is one sitation where I think it would have been easier to be in early position and bet .... the preflop call is to try to get the blinds in, in case I flop a set. Otherwise I will try to outplay the others or get out cheaply....

Preflop
MP limps, CO raises, I call, blinds fold, MP calls.

Flop
775 giving me quads.
MP bets, CO raises, I ... ?

If I cold call here it looks highly suspicious. If I raise here it looks highly suspicious. But I only have 2 choices. (assuming we are not folding here [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

What do we prefer?

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

edit: the flop is rainbow, no flush possible.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

A call will look like either two overcards or a pocket pair that you are unsure of. Nobody is ever suspicious of quads.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

the only time i floped quads I called the flop, raised the turn got re raised so i max bet the turn and river and lost so what do I know

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

When in doubt, fastplay.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

Call. You don't want to loose MP. With two seeing the turn there is a better chance you will get some action. You know none of them have trips so a 3-bet will make tighten them up on the expensive streets.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

you've got to milk this one a little. I am raising the turn. Who knows, maybe 55 is out there waiting to cap the turn and river.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

that would be just "south of heaven"!! LOL

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

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A call will look like either two overcards or a pocket pair that you are unsure of. Nobody is ever suspicious of quads.

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I think you might be leaving out the very real possibility that a call will look like A7s as well. Certainly in most party players coldcalling range, especially the 30/10 guy.

I still think you have to just call though.

lf

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

the three bet looks alot like your going to try and buy your way to the river. Who would 3 bet with the nuts here...that is why it is the option I choose

Swiss Cheese

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

3-bet and hope someone caps the flop or someone gets tricky on the turn and cr's or donk bets. The blinds are already going to have to call 2 cold, so you are highly likely to loose them anyway.

I know this post isn't about pre-flop, but I personally hate cold calling for set value when directly behind the pre-flop raiser for the exact reason that came up in this hand. You have horrible relative position and your raises will put way more pressure on players than you probably want since you can't get them on the installment plan.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

I think overall you will get more action if you 3-bet. Is is very unlikely that either or them will fold the flop and it might be capped, so you are looking at getting an extra 1.5 to 2.5 BB into the pot. That's basically the same as raising the turn and you cannot be sure that you will be bet into on the turn. On top of that, no one will suspect that you have a 7 and will give you plenty of action on the turn and river.

If there was a flush draw possible, I would be more likely to just cold call since it looks like I'm on a draw and there is a greater chance of that they will make second best hands.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

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you've got to milk this one a little. I am raising the turn. Who knows, maybe 55 is out there waiting to cap the turn and river.

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Do you think 55 will not cap the turn and river if you 3-bet the flop?

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

no, but people are suspicious of a set.

In fact, I called and on subsequent streets it was checked round to me, bet-call-call and bet-fold-call despite a Queen and 9 coming out. Took down a reasonable pot without raising once.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

How would you have played this hand if you had 55 instead of 77?

Cuz that's what your opponents are gonna put you on when you start raising.

Lawrence

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

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no, but people are suspicious of a set.

In fact, I called and on subsequent streets it was checked round to me, bet-call-call and bet-fold-call despite a Queen and 9 coming out. So I probably lost 1BB by not raising the flop.

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FYP

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know this post isn't about pre-flop, but I personally hate cold calling for set value when directly behind the pre-flop raiser for the exact reason that came up in this hand. You have horrible relative position and your raises will put way more pressure on players than you probably want

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But we have more than set value here. If instead of 775, the flop had been 832, you would love to have the pfr betting into you so that you can raise and protect your hand. And you are going to catch a flop like the latter much more often than the one we got. This looks to me like a good spot to take the flop for two bets with a couple people in due to the the combination of the possibility of flopping your set and the possiblity of ending up in a situation where your sevens look good unimproved and you can much more easily protect your hand than if you three-bet pf because of the smaller pot and our relative position. In the case where the pfr has a bigger pair, we don't reopen the action to him and end up paying four bets to see a flop three-handed when there are only two cards in the deck that help us.

Even if we are mainly playing for set value, it is too much of an oversimplification to ignore the other things that can happen in deciding the best play. There is all kinds of goodness with the coldcall here.

My only real concern about coldcalling is the metagame. Since there are very few hands I would coldcall here, an opponent who knows me well could put me on a narrow range of hands, whereas if I were to three-bet with mid pairs here, it would mean that my hand rage would be quite wide. But that seems pretty minor to me compared to the benefits.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

Call because it might be reraised and capped behind you. You want to be caught in a raising war, don't you?

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

of course, but I know that they don't have no sevens and neither knows who has a seven, so the likelihood of a raising war is very slim. As Lawrence said, a reraise makes it look like a 55 flopped boat, but even that is useless because unless someone else has 55 there's no real chance of action.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

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no, but people are suspicious of a set.

In fact, I reraised anyway and everybody check-folded [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] losing me at least 3BB

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FYP

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the alternative ending [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

Reraise. Everyone left in the pot has shown interest in their hand, so there's no point in trying to suck people in any more. MP is more likely to call with, say 66 now than if an overcard hits the turn and he faces 2 cold.

Good luck.
Eric

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

[ QUOTE ]
of course, but I know that they don't have no sevens and neither knows who has a seven, so the likelihood of a raising war is very slim. As Lawrence said, a reraise makes it look like a 55 flopped boat, but even that is useless because unless someone else has 55 there's no real chance of action.

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Maybe you'll get caught in a war between a couple of overpairs here, or an overpair and a 5 ...

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

easy raise. The EP limper bet into a preflop raiser. It is very unlikely that he thinks he can take down the pot with a flop bet so he likely has a hand with some showdown value. More likely than not, you wont lose the MP with a raise and if you do lose him , you are very unlikely to get a turn bet out of him. Most players arent folding a small pair or 2 overs in this situation

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

[ QUOTE ]
easy raise. The EP limper bet into a preflop raiser. It is very unlikely that he thinks he can take down the pot with a flop bet so he likely has a hand with some showdown value. More likely than not, you wont lose the MP with a raise and if you do lose him , you are very unlikely to get a turn bet out of him. Most players arent folding a small pair or 2 overs in this situation

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It's most certainly not an "easy" raise, if it even is one.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

I have less experience than the others here, but it seems to me that this may be a case where you generally stand to make a little bit more by playing exactly as you did, yet it is probably best to go ahead and raise because you stand to win a huge pot if one of your opponents does have the 55 or turns or rivers a set. Plus there is also the added bonus possibility of doing a little bit better by betting if your opponents misread you, though this doesn't seem very likely.

Re: Flopping quads choice
 

i flopped quads earlier today w/ 77 on a 775 flop

that is all