Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

I thought PF was most interesting.

sb is Padawon's Master - chief444

Button has $14 at the start of the hand

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

Is it a good idea to call two cold back to you with that hand pre-flop? I'm trying to make up my mind...

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is it a good idea to call two cold back to you with that hand pre-flop? I'm trying to make up my mind...

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally a standard muck for me.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

Yes you're probably dominated by at least one of em (AK, AQ), the other might have a decent pair, 88 or better. Fold while it's still cheap.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

The thing about preflop is that chief444 probably sees Button's 3-bet as an oppurtunity to knock out Qtip. When its back to us we're getting like 6.5:1 on our call which may or may not be good enough. I guess chief444 would have to cap with 88, 99, TT for calling to be correct. Not too sure.

On the turn we're getting 10:1 which is fine as long as we can make up 1.5BB (I think) on the river.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

I'm not sure if I like the flop call either.

Most of your outs either give someone a flush, a different flush draw, or a straight draw (EDIT: or a set). Then again, that's still probably enough for a call... (EDIT: I think).

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

[grunch] I would normally fold preflop. Even if I thought that the SB knows you would fold AJo when it's two back to you, I would still fold. But if you call, nervously call flop, fold turn.

Of course, I don't know chief444 like you, QTip (actually at all), is it likely he's just getting tricky with you knowing the button isn't much of a threat? I think I still want to fold preflop (and then on the turn after calling the flop) though. What could he have on the turn that we're beating?

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes you're probably dominated by at least one of em (AK, AQ), the other might have a decent pair, 88 or better. Fold while it's still cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're giving them way too much credit. First, hero is opening from the cutoff. So his hand range is quite large here, and SB would realize that, and the button might. Button 3-bets, which is normally a sign of strength, but he's a low stack, and low stacks do strange things a lot of the time. Finally, SB caps, but all that means is he has a hand decent enough that he wants to go heads-up with the low stack, who will only have three small bets left for post-flop play. He knows the hero will fold most of his hand range to a cap. I'm thinking most pairs, many ace hands, and the stronger king hands is SB's range.

So I like the call here pre-flop. Post-flop seems okay too.

Edited because I misremembered button's stack size.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

Preflop...I don't really care either way...I generally call here, but the options are very close.

The flop is a clear call.

The turn is close, but I think you are right in calling. It's going to be a rare spot that you don't get two more bets out of chief on the river when you hit your q, and if the button comes along then you really make money.

Will

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

Sounds like chief444 has you psychologically dominated. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I would fold to the two bet for fear of domination (or beefy PP). (AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ all make you really sad)

Flop call; you have good odds.

Turn call is fine, I assume the button will call here too, so you are getting roughly 10:1 . . . I don't know chief444 but he will probably bet into a Q given his aggression so far. . . if he checks after the Q you can always bet =). Qc I would be afraid of the button (looks like he might be playing a flush or ???) but go ahead and bet/call anyway.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

I really feel like folding preflop. If you flop an A or J, you are going to be stuck between to raisers for the rest of the hand.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

pf is not bad, I may just fold it, would button be playing his low stack off with a crap hand?
Flop call is ok, turn is ok to draw to your gutshot, but
what do you do when you hit an A on the river?

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

[ QUOTE ]
what do you do when you hit an A on the river?


[/ QUOTE ]
Pay off for the bad preflop call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what do you do when you hit an A on the river?


[/ QUOTE ]
Pay off for the bad preflop call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

haha yes! self-imposed punishment! I like it! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

IMO the preflop call is -EV. But I can understand it. As long as you bare in mind that whether Cheif is trying to put a move on or not, he has an edge over your hand the majority of the time.

The flop call is marginal as well. Especially as you could face a raise from Button trying to blow off his shortstack.

On the turn, you're beating nothing and this risk of a raise behind you is just as great.

I think I fold preflop and watch Button win the pot with 33.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

I cap with 88 preflop in this situation. You played this one fine.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

Kwaz:

Button has 1 BB left on the turn. This is no fearing a raise, and I highly doubt he's folding. That's 10:1, and I'll pick up at least one more if I hit my gutshot.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kwaz:

Button has 1 BB left on the turn. This is no fearing a raise, and I highly doubt he's folding. That's 10:1, and I'll pick up at least one more if I hit my gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad. I should learn to pay attention and count.

Turn is fine.

It also changes my opinion of the flop slightly. Even if Button does raise, theoretically you close the action for the rest of the hand.

I like the hand a little more every time I look at it.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

Happy Ending for QTip:

Qs fell on river, Chief bets and pays off my raise with AA after calling me a huge fish.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

There is the chance the button will raise behind you, then the small with 3 bet. That puts you in a bad spot. Same thing applies on the turn is it might get raised behind you. I would fold preflop( i hate writing that in replies because i hate it when ppl do that) but the Hand is terrible to play. Your not giogn to be happy with many flops besides broadway, trips, etc. Your always wondering if you are going to be crushed. Only call if you have numbers on the players that says they are ultra lag.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

[ QUOTE ]
Only call if you have numbers on the players that says they are ultra lag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh great....don't inflate chief's ego!!

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

I hope everyone can see that we have an open-raise in the CO, followed by a 3-bet by the button. This is much different than raising UTG and having to call 2 back to you.

I think the hand looks perfect. You are close on the turn, but your ace (and every now and then J) will be good often enough.

Re: Another hand with Padawon\'s Master
 

FWIW. I think that Chief should have c/r the turn.