1/2 NL Live Deep Stacked
 

I've been running well in this game....taking a $200 buy-in and turning it into $1500+. I am the big stack at the table and I am in the CO. The button is the second big stack with about $1250.

3 limpers to me I call with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Button calls, SB completes, BB taps the table (Pot: $10)

Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to me...I bet $8

Button calls and BB calls (Pot: $34)

Turn is the A
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet full pot, button calls, BB folds (Pot $102)

River T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I glance at the button and catch him looking at his chips and think, "looks like he wants to call a big bet." I bet all-in (he has about $1200 left at this point) and he looks up at me and shrugs his shoulders, "I call."

I immediately table my hand and he tables his K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I point to my ace of hearts as the dealer pushes the pot towards the villain. He says, king-high, then I say...no ace-high and then I get that sinking feeling and the fog and desire to vomit comes over me.

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"looks like he wants to call a big bet."

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Cant say I blame him.

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Horrible river bet.

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damn. that sucks. lol. i had to read your post like 4 times to figure out why the hell you were upset.

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Yeh...I actually started to argue with the dealer before I thought to check the board real carefully. I was absolutely stunned.

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Horrible river bet.

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With that riverbet you will only get called by better hands.

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Horrible river bet.

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Please explain the riverbet. Whether or not you thought you had the nuts is irrelevant here, also that you saw him getting ready to call a bet since you could not know how large a bet he was willing to call. I just do not understand your action here and what you were thinking.

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Horrible river bet.

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Given that hero didn't realize that there was a possible straight flush, he was probably losing his stack anyway.

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"the board isnt paired, i have the nutz, woo hoo"

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Please explain the riverbet. Whether or not you thought you had the nuts is irrelevant here, also that you saw him getting ready to call a bet since you could not know how large a bet he was willing to call. I just do not understand your action here and what you were thinking.

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OK, there seems to be a lot of disagreement on the river bet and I understand that it looks absolutely ridiculous given the amount of money in the pot.

This hand occured in 2003 and my NL style in 2003 was quite laggy.

I had made a couple of setup plays in hopes of getting the big stacks to call me when I had the nuts. I had made several large bluffs and shown the cards as advertising. In addition, the big stack had been trying to use his position on my to reraise me with air. I'm sure I laid down incorrectly at least once or twice and I caught him once. Anyway, it has devolved into what could have been perceived as a small pissing contest (though we are still quite friendly between hands). I decided to pull the trigger is less than a half second after seeing that he liked the river card. I knew it would look ridiculous and make it look like I was trying to buy it. Of course, I actually thought I had the nuts here and was stunned to find out that I didn't at showdown. Given the player's background, he probably would have called with any straight, set, or flush.

I ran into him the next day and we spoke about the hand and he stated that he was lucky because "if any other heart had fallen..."

Out of context, it looks like a ridiculous bet a donk would make. I have made these bets several times, however, and gotten called probably half the time (and never lost) before this.

Basically, I knew that he liked the card, I thought I had the nuts, and I took at shot at getting called for the big money instead of something like $100.

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Yeh...I actually started to argue with the dealer before I thought to check the board real carefully. I was absolutely stunned.

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This must have been pretty funny for everyone else at the table

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Of course the guy who chases with the K high flush draw is going to fold this if the river is say the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you guys can be so funny, hero made enough on the flop and turn to pay $1200 on the river everytime this happens.

Mack

Re: 1/2 NL Live Deep Stacked
 

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Of course the guy who chases with the K high flush draw is going to fold this if the river is say the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you guys can be so funny, hero made enough on the flop and turn to pay $1200 on the river everytime this happens.

Mack

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I don't think the king High flush calls $1200 here.... And we don't know that villain has the king high flush either, could be any flush lower than that. Betting this high is silly. Queen High flush certainly doesn't call $1200, but might call $100 or $200. Same with Jack high on down.

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Of course the guy who chases with the K high flush draw is going to fold this if the river is say the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you guys can be so funny, hero made enough on the flop and turn to pay $1200 on the river everytime this happens.

Mack

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Queen High flush certainly doesn't call $1200, but might call $100 or $200. Same with Jack high on down.

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Have you ever played 1/2 live?

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Hard not to go broke on this hand...

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Of course the guy who chases with the K high flush draw is going to fold this if the river is say the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you guys can be so funny, hero made enough on the flop and turn to pay $1200 on the river everytime this happens.

Mack

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Queen High flush certainly doesn't call $1200, but might call $100 or $200. Same with Jack high on down.

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Have you ever played 1/2 live?

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I think many people are underestimating the chance of getting called with a worse hand. If I spotted him any 2 hearts, my estimation of him calling was close to 50%. Maybe you just had to be there. Meh, maybe I just sucked. Whatever the case, he told me he would have been toast had another heart fallen. I believe him. If that's correct, then my bet was correct.

Re: 1/2 NL Live Deep Stacked
 

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Horrible river bet.

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Given that hero didn't realize that there was a possible straight flush, he was probably losing his stack anyway.

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Yes. I had no idea and it was embarassing to not realize it. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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Of course the guy who chases with the K high flush draw is going to fold this if the river is say the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you guys can be so funny, hero made enough on the flop and turn to pay $1200 on the river everytime this happens.

Mack

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Queen High flush certainly doesn't call $1200, but might call $100 or $200. Same with Jack high on down.

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Have you ever played 1/2 live?

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I think many people are underestimating the chance of getting called with a worse hand. If I spotted him any 2 hearts, my estimation of him calling was close to 50%. Maybe you just had to be there. Meh, maybe I just sucked. Whatever the case, he told me he would have been toast had another heart fallen. I believe him. If that's correct, then my bet was correct.

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Everyone at 1/2 calls this with a K-high flush. Except maybe the old man in the 5 seat. The majority are calling down to 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], or even worse.

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I agree the bet is too big, but you really think he folds the 2nd nuts? I mean this is like hero potting it again then folding to a reraise because he sees there are 3 hands out there that beat him, a little fanciful in my opinion, sometimes we give people too much credit.

Mack

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some of you guys must not play 1/2. the river bet is fine. i coudl easily see worse hands calling you in my experiences.

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I agree the bet is too big, but you really think he folds the 2nd nuts? I mean this is like hero potting it again then folding to a reraise because he sees there are 3 hands out there that beat him, a little fanciful in my opinion, sometimes we give people too much credit.

Mack

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I agree...even if the river bet is just flat out wrong even though I expected to get called by many other flushes (meh, it could be), the actual river bet itself is completely independant of the results. I feel fairly certain that the result is the same no matter what. It is going to be extremely difficult to get away from this hand because, as I said, this guy's hand range is, IMO, much wider than a str8 flush. I would expect this guy to raise a pot-sized bet with any flush from how he played. Obviously, I could flat call, but why would I not raise that range? It's one thing to have a 4-card straight flush on the board and quite another to require a combination.

If someone would lay this down, I'd like to play with them because they'd be easily exploitable. Although different people have different styles and would have played the river differently, I don't think anyone on this board doesn't get stacked here. The guy is drawing to 4 outs when you pot it and only one of them breaks you. Any of 6 cards and you're a favorite to break him. This hand was so nasty because of the fact that I had almost no way out and we were both super deep.

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some of you guys must not play 1/2. the river bet is fine. i coudl easily see worse hands calling you in my experiences.

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That's the thing. 1/2 live and online are completely different animals. I have had huge bets called many times by hands that I wouldn't think could call $10. If you're not willing to shove money out there because you'd rather milk them than make a bet that, in your estimation, can't get called, you are losing a lot of value. These guys want to call and they will in many situations. I see a lot of otherwise good players make these milk bets and its just a version of FPS. You're playing 2 levels above your opponent instead of 1. In poker, you always want to be just 1 level above your opponent. If his IQ is 105, don't play him like his is 140.

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Good point, they'll call with a non-flush queen high much of the time. Thank God for fish.

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I think OP played this hand ok. He had a read on the other player as a very loose agressive type who had a lower flush and they'd been going back and forth in a pissing contest. Good place to push as his opponents frustration might make him call with a weaker flush. For him to EXPECT the other guy to have a straight flush is bad poker it seems to me. You cant expect the hand of doom to come crushing you from the sky at every moment.
Expecting your set to lose to a bigger set, expecting the other guy to have 4 of a kind when you have the full house.
Come on, thats just ridiculous.
Sometimes you will lose these hands unfortunately and all of these players who act as if they could lay it down are full of crap, IMO.

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Betting this high is silly. Queen High flush certainly doesn't call $1200, but might call $100 or $200. Same with Jack high on down.

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LOL. Do you play 1/2nl live?

I've seen people make MUCH worse calls than calling a huge overbet with a 2nd nut flush.

Try: $150 dollar pot, a $600 raise all-in on the river, called by a low straight on a board that has three spades AND is paired.

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I play the same games (live) and totally understand where you're coming from.

Just recently at the 2/5 NL at Paris the two deep stacks SB ($1500) and BB ($2700) got involved in a hand that loooked like this;

Everyone folds to SB who completes to $5

BB checks

Flop 2c-9d-10h

Check - Check

Turn 5c

Check - Check

River 6c

SB - All in (Ac8c)

BB - Insta Call (Kc7c)

FWIW...i was not one of the players involved in the hand.

Re: 1/2 NL Live Deep Stacked
 

Happens all the time live. People who play strictly online have little idea how soft a live game of a corresponding limit can be. Live pros get a lot less hands, but they play some enourmous donks, too.