AA against 2 other players
 

I got AA 4 times tonight in 3 hours. I only made money on 2 of them, though.

Here is one that just happened.

AA Hero has $30 in MP
Villain is UTG has $20
.25/.50 NL

Hero raises to $1.50
LP calls
Villain calls UTG

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] pot = $5
UTG bets $1
Hero raises to $4
LP calls
UTG calls

Turn: 9
UTG bets $1
Hero raises All-in
LP calls
UTG calls

I can't assume the player has a 9. Can I ?

Maybe I was on tilt a little since this happened with AA about 10 minutes ago.


AA

I didn't raise this one.

Flop: Q J 5
I bet the pot
MP calls

Turn: J
I bet 1/2 pot
MP raises all-in
I fold.

This one was different. 6 people saw the flop.

Above situation, only 2 others saw the flop so I figured if he has the 9 then he has it but I'm not folding this one. Besides, if he called with a 9, he wasn't getting the odds to do so.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

someone respond. I respond to your threads.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

you misplayed both pretty badly.. hand one your push is really bad and hand two not raising preflop is even worse..

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

Hand 1. Villain had $15 left on him on the turn. Other guy had $5 left on him on the turn. I had about $24 left on the turn. The pot was $18. Still think my push is bad ? I should assume he had the 9 ? Only me and 2 others saw the flop, it wasn't like 6 people were seeing the flop. I estimate that it was about 8 to 1 that someone had a 9 given that there were two on the board.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

You make me sad.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

I concur. In hand two, when you let six people see the flop by not raising preflop, your AA becomes well less than 50% to win -- not only do you run the risk of the second jack (or queen or whatever) coming on fourth street, but with 6 people, someone can randomly make trips or two pair on the flop.

On hand one, let's look at it from villain's perspective after your post-flop reraise. The pot contains $14 ($5 pre-flop + $1 UTG raise + $4 your reraise + $4 from LP). Let's further say villain has K9 and s/he puts you on AA.

Villain has five outs -- three Ks, two 9s. That's only 5 of 46 or slightly more than 10% to get one of those outs on 4th street.

However, if an out hits, the implied odds are great. Villain has an extra $16, which will probably be called and will win. So if villain makes the about 10% shot at the outs, s/he will win the $14 in the pot, plus an additional $16 from you (and that isn't assuming LP calls). That's over a 10% of winning $30 for a $3 investment. That, plus the fact that your reraise could be a bluff (let's face it -- the initial $1 raise shows weakness, so you could be bluffing) and it is a decent call for villain.

Thus, I think a larger post-flop raise is called for on your part to reduce the implied odds.

As far could you read that this person had a nine? It's one of a number of possibilities. They could have Q-10, 10-8, Ax of diamonds, or a nine or four. I would think that a jack could be ruled out, as the post-flop raise was too weak for that -- that bet indicates to me that it's a hand on the make.

All in all, I don't think the all-in on fourth street is bad (as I said, the raise post-flop could use somework). There is a significant enough chance that villain missed with the 9 and you take down the pot there.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[censored]

If villain and other villains are thinking that [censored] in depth, I might as well quit online poker right now.

OK SO EVERYTIME THE BOARD PAIRS ONE OF THE SMALL CARDS ON THE TURN, I'M GOINGING TO ASSUME THEY HAVE IT AND FOLD. SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN.

My raise on the flop sucked. I'd admit but he still isn't getting 8 to 1 and I don't give a [censored] what you say.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
You make me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

F U C K Y O U

I'm trying to learn here along with everyone else.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
You make me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
F U C K Y O U

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

FWIW, I probably lose my stack on hand no. one. With the J9 and two diamonds on board, it's easy to put your two callers on draws, so you have to keep making them pay. I push the turn as well. I would expect to lose to JJ or maybe 99, but your ahead of the usual suspects so a majority of the time you'll win unless they make their draws.

I think you know this too, but you got spooked by a guy holding a singleton 9. I know the feeling. A few days ago, I had AA cracked by K4o when a second 4 hit the turn (this at the $50 NL tables). It stings for a few moments, but then the name goes on the buddy list, and you know that that player is your friend until he inevitably goes broke.

Hand two is why it is NEVER correct to slow play aces against at low limits with a never ending cycle of RANDOM opponents.

But you know this too....

-salloch

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

I think your call on 4th street is fine. Like I said, there are a few other things villain could have had post-flop that justify a call there, not to mention that even if villian does have the nine, you still have two outs to the aces. I know I would have raised there -- there's no reason to fold everytime the board pairs. I was simply saying it was reasonable for that person to be in for fourth street given the play up to that point.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
someone respond. I respond to your threads.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, 1 hour 34 minutes elapsed between your original note and this one.

Anyway, I would have ended up all in on the first hand. However, I'm not so happy about your play of either one (though you didn't give stack sizes on the second one, so it is hard to judge).

Before the cards are dealt, you should be thinking about the stack sizes and the texture of the game. Your stack is 60 BBs, and the only opponent you list is 40 BBs. Generally, you should be willing to put in 40-50 BBs on TPTK or an overpair, especially with aces, where there is no risk of another overpair that beats yours.

When considering the texture of the game, this one is obviously very loose, at least preflop. Therefore, don't bother with trying to be deceptive and limping preflop with your AA. Just raise away and someone will call. Again, you should have these plans in your head even before the cards are dealt.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

I'm not sure that I would have pushed all in on the first hand because of my limited stack. I think that you should have protected your hand on the flop with a larger raise, rather than trying to "sandbag" aces, which is never a good idea, especially in a NL game with a limited stack. Personally, I would have raised on the flop all in, rather than give him a chance to get lucky on the turn or river with a crazy draw. Also, this eliminates the confusion that he creates on later rounds because you would know where he stands.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

First, please use the hand converter when posting hands. Second, I don't mind the second hand so much if you were trying to reraise a subsequent raiser. But, I think when you have six callers you need to let it go a lot quicker.

Regarding the first hand, it is my opinion that the 3x BB raise at the micro limits is not nearly enough. Make it 5-6x the BB. I think pushing the turn, with a pair on the baord and two opponents, is pretty darn bad. By that point in the hand, AA is a defensive hand, not an offensive play.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

you asked for advice, you got it.. it may have been a little harsh, but if you don't want the advice, dont ask for it.

bottom line is you blasted the hell out of hand #1 right after the board paired. dumb move.

hand #2 your limped w/ AA, dumb move.

accept the fact that you misplayed the hands and move on. learn to take constructive criticism.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
accept the fact that you misplayed the hands and move on. learn to take constructive criticism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, to be fair, my criticism wasn't really constructive.

Re: AA against 2 other players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]