10-25 AA
 

I open for 85 UTG. 3 callers and both blinds. Everyone involved has 2500-3000 stacks. 6 to the flop for 510. Game has been pretty standard, not super aggressive or tight or anything special.

Flop is K24r.

Blinds check. I check. Next guy checks. Next guy (DirtyEm, decent aggressive player) pots 510. I plan to checkraise allin if nobody raises. Next guy (haven't seen him do much) goes all-in for 3000. Blinds fold.

My move?

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Throw up....

Then fold more than likely. You think he has AK here? I see 22/44 much more often.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

I like checking with AA in multiway pot in similair situations and I do this often.
I think folding is the best after seeing the raise though.

Best wishes

Re: 10-25 AA
 

your play thus far looks good and i would fold to the allin.
id feel a bit sick, but too good a chance potbettor ot alliner has a small set.
its a bit painful to watch these guys end a playing a big pot w/ AK vs KQ, but youre gonna be drawing slim here a little too often.

of course, if the game is pretty juiced up, just stick you money in there and see what happens... i think its ok either way. foldng AA on this board is so not fun.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Wouldn't a set typically play this a bit slower given this drawless flop, with the preflop raiser still in the hand? I would expect to see some combination of AK/KQ a lot more often than a set in this situation. I'm thinking this is a push most of the time.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

I don't feel I'm qualified to give El D advice but I'd almost certainly fold this.

Ryan

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Easy fold. Why are you posting this El D? Is there something I'm missing?

Re: 10-25 AA *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

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WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

Re: 10-25 AA
 

call all day.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

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Can't he pick a better spot? I agree a good number of times he is ahead, but I doubt its much more than 30%.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't a set typically play this a bit slower given this drawless flop, with the preflop raiser still in the hand? I would expect to see some combination of AK/KQ a lot more often than a set in this situation. I'm thinking this is a push most of the time.

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I agree. Not the best situation in the world for you, but most sets are going to call the initial bettor. I think the raiser either has a big K or, rarely, 2 pair. The flop bettor may have you beat with a set but I think there are enough times you are good to call.

raisins

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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call all day.

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ok, i dont know much about the UB 10/25 game... in most games i play, id call happily.... in the party 2K full ring, calling here is laughably bad.

assuming this game plays something like the live 10/25s ive played, id call here all day. no doubt.
if they get beat, the get beat...
in party 10/20 ring, its a fold.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

I think AK vs 22 is a lot more likely here than AK vs KQ. Bottom sets get played fast pretty often.

I fold.

Kirk

Re: 10-25 AA
 

I folded. Dirty had AK. All-in had K7.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

from what i have gathered flawless this game plays a lot closer to a good live game than it does a party full 2k game.

so your call here is good.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

with all due respect KKF, i dont play any limits close to yours, but arent the hands your up against where this occurs the pots arent this multihanded at all? and its players who are moving in with worse holdings than yours more often, i.e. draws and Kx?


id fold here im sure i could find a better spot where im more happy with winning all their chips.


edit: just read outcome and it says he was good, but ya more times than not isnt he behind?

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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I folded. Dirty had AK. All-in had K7.

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Diablo, is UB really that soft, or is this just an isolated example?

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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I folded. Dirty had AK. All-in had K7.

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Diablo, is UB really that soft, or is this just an isolated example?

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imo, this kind of aggression makes a game much tougher, not softer, than a rockish party2k game.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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I folded. Dirty had AK. All-in had K7.

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Diablo, is UB really that soft, or is this just an isolated example?

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OMG LOL.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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I folded. Dirty had AK. All-in had K7.

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Diablo, is UB really that soft, or is this just an isolated example?

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1) If this were standard or easy, do you think I would have folded?

2) The games are imo much, much tougher than Party games. I have played a little Party 10/20 and sweated a few friends for a good number of sessions. I find hand-reading far, far easier in the Party game and people often make the kinds of mistakes that make it really easy to make big money. That is generally playing too passive and straightforward and calling too much. On UB, the "mistakes" people make often put you to really tough decisions and generally make things really hard.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Interesting. Based on your read of the player with AK as being solid, I was sure you had him beat but I would have put the K7 guy on a set or two pair. As other posters have noted, though, two pair or a set would not likely play it that fast.

I guess I would agree that the K7 aggression does make this harder than the rockish Party games....

Re: 10-25 AA
 

someone hit a King and the other, god know what he has. I don't think often enough he's going to have a set so I overcall in this spot after thinking about it for a while.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

having never played 10-25 NL, i call with AA [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
CCCCCCCCCCC..[stupid dumb ass crap deleted]...LLLLLLLLLLLLLL

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Don't be a dumbfuck... this nonsense makes the thread difficult for others to read.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

My first intsinct (before reading the results) was to call. Why would a set play their hand this fast on this board. It would almost be scarier if the unknown player coldcalled the initial bet. That looks more like a set line. The fact that the reraiser in this hand is an unknown is another factor pushing me towards a call i think. Unknown players, on average, don't play as well as everyday regulars...Simple fact.

I'm sure this is a very close to EV neutral decision though (which is why El D. posted it). But when i have a decision which i think is close to EV neutral, i always like seeing a showdown (or taking the aggressive approach)....

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Anyone who thinks this hand is somehow standard or easy should stick to checkers.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. Based on your read of the player with AK as being solid, I was sure you had him beat

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Why are you so sure? Why don't you think he has 22 or 44?

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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My first intsinct (before reading the results) was to call. Why would a set play their hand this fast on this board.

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FWIW, small sets will often jam on the flop when they put their opponents on top pair or overpairs. I think raising to 1500 is probably more standard than pushing, but there are a lot of tricky guys in this game who will push w/ sets in spots like this precisely to get KQ/AK/AA to call.

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It would almost be scarier if the unknown player coldcalled the initial bet. That looks more like a set line.

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As I mentioned, many regulars are aware of this and will adjust their set play accordingly. I had no idea about this particular guy. The stanard unknown idiot play w/ a set is to minraise.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

why put yourself in this position? lead out. when you c/r on this board you will make a lot of worse hands fold and lose value and ensure tha tyou get stacked by the set that could very easily be out there. you trap $500 in the middle instead of stacking someone, and don't save money when behind

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
why put yourself in this position? lead out. when you c/r on this board you will make a lot of worse hands fold and lose value and ensure tha tyou get stacked by the set that could very easily be out there. you trap $500 in the middle instead of stacking someone, and don't save money when behind

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not sure I agree with this....the preflop pot is so big and there are so many players and he's OOP, if Diablo thinks he's ahead, a checkraise is fine - that pot size will often commit a good King no matter what and it protects the pot.....BUT, being first to act, a bet is just throwing money away if there's gonna be a lot of action on the flop anyway....I think the hand was played fine and the main (only) problem came down to the fact that D had no read of the opponents in question.....keep in mind, had Diablo led out, he might not've trapped BOTH guys with the Kings - the way he played it he did, but he just didn't follow through with the call (because of lack of read) which I'm sure many times he WILL (when he has the read) and win a big pot....

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Too many preflop callers for too little money for me, even on UB. I instafold.


Edit: Just read through, saw the results. I still instafold.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

'but he just didn't follow through with the call (because of lack of read) which I'm sure many times he WILL (when he has the read) and win a big pot.... '

this really doesn't seem like a great spot to be building big pots on the flop

Re: 10-25 AA
 

El D, who was the "next guy?" do you remember?

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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El D, who was the "next guy?" do you remember?

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htownbenz - never seen him before.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Huge over bet. He is spending 3000 to buy 510. I would call almost instantly. Smells like a draw or a weak kicker. If he really had trips he would probably slow play them to get value unless there was a flush draw, but you didn't say if there was.

I'm sorry I didn't read the post correctly. My mistake. My decision stays the same.

He was making an isolation bet here. Now if he had a crazy strength hand he should have just called hoping for you to call. Instead he raises all-in to push you out. Still showing a big hand but not the best possible hand.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
Huge over bet. He is spending 3000 to buy 510. I would call almost instantly. Smells like a draw or a weak kicker. If he really had trips he would probably slow play them to get value unless there was a flush draw, but you didn't say if there was.

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1020.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

Uve made 2 posts, and ive puked twice in the past 20 mins, coincidence? I think not.

Re: 10-25 AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uve made 2 posts, and ive puked twice in the past 20 mins, coincidence? I think not.

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don't let the gimmick account piss you off..that's what he wants you to do [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I would instacall in this spot because party donks i'm used to never fast play sets espeically on such dry flops, but UB is a different story i guess

Re: 10-25 AA
 

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I folded. Dirty had AK. All-in had K7.

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Diablo, is UB really that soft, or is this just an isolated example?

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1) If this were standard or easy, do you think I would have folded?

2) The games are imo much, much tougher than Party games. I have played a little Party 10/20 and sweated a few friends for a good number of sessions. I find hand-reading far, far easier in the Party game and people often make the kinds of mistakes that make it really easy to make big money. That is generally playing too passive and straightforward and calling too much. On UB, the "mistakes" people make often put you to really tough decisions and generally make things really hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

the short handed party 2k games sound a lot like this UB game, while the full ring is a different story.