You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

Villain is extremely LAG bordering maniac. I had to fold a ton of hands against him in the past in HU Blind Defense and hands where I was the aggressor. Stats are 64.6/40.6/2.21

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

I don't see the point in the flop 3-bet. I'd just call down.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

Agreed.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

I don't like the flop 3-bet either. I don't get many maniacs where I play so I really don't know how to tackle them.

Obviously all you beat here is J high now. There is a huge range of hands that do beat you and I don't know how many that you beat. You are only beating J high here and some busted straight draws?

True

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

Yeah I think I got a little excited there on the flop.

"King high with a gutshot? Hell yeah!"

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

This may warrant a preflop cold call. I understand the desire to isolate, but oop you really need to improve against this guy.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

So 3-betting is -EV?

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

[ QUOTE ]
"King high with a gutshot? Hell yeah!"

[/ QUOTE ]

You may have been a bit delusional, too, since you have K-high and a backdoor draw. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I think the three-bet is fine -- I don't want BB tagging along unless he is seriously bad-passive, predictable, and indiscriminately calling raises in the BB.

Against guys like these you want to get to SD cheaply unless you actually hit -- this is the one sort of guy where I could possibly three-bet pre-flop and ck-cl the flop since he's almost always raising me, his raise means nothing in terms of narrowing his range, he's never folding, and I don't want to 3-bet K-high here. Theses guys pay off your good hands, and they showdown J6o or whatever enough so that if you're playing a SD-able hand (and K high is against him) just get to SD and don't push them unless you hit or you see he's adjusting to your strategy.

If you've been folding to hinm a lot in blind steals (say he is CO and you are BB) consider limiting your defenses to two classes of hands that are a bit different from your normal steal range (1) SD worthy; or (2) no SD value but many, many ways to hit. Compared to your normal range, the first category gets larger and the second gets smaller. The idea is you either are seeing a SD (almost no matter what falls) or you are ditching on the flop depending on texture.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

[ QUOTE ]
So 3-betting is -EV?


[/ QUOTE ]

Pre-flop? It entirely depends on how well this guy plays. One way to figure him out is to observe if he ever folds the flop HU in a big pot with position. If he doesn't then you should probably keep the pot small and donk the flop. If he does then you can 3-bet but should respect his raise. If you don't know then I would cold call and donk the flop.

BTW, I'm just making up a theory to give my earlier reply some beef. It's something I might start looking for, but until now, I've played one maniac like any other.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

[ QUOTE ]
One way to figure him out is to observe if he ever folds the flop HU in a big pot with position.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's way to specific of a read. If you get the sense that he's capable of folding the flop UI then I like the 3-bet. If you're unsure, I'd assume that he feels the need to challenge you. You don't really want to see a SD unimproved, but if you build the pot up like this, you have to.

Another bonus about cold calling is you can c/r the flop if you hit. This will neutralize the bb. If the bb folded PF then you can wait until the turn to c/r.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

Don't go crazy on a maniac. This way you'll be the maniac in the game. You can loosen up a bit by raising mid or low pairs an good draws. Just be patient and wait for a good hand and bust him.
Here i would raise the flop and call down. Then i would thuse the check fold on the flop if you don't hit and a check raise if you hit.

Greets, Surf

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

[ QUOTE ]
This may warrant a preflop cold call. I understand the desire to isolate, but oop you really need to improve against this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the 3-bet PF is a must unless the BB will call 2 cold anyways most of the time. It is a pretty bad mistake to give him 5:1 on his money, as he is correct to call with most holdings. You really want him out of there.

It has been discussed at length before, that cold-calling a raise as the 2nd player in from the SB is almost always wrong.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

[ QUOTE ]
It has been discussed at length before, that cold-calling a raise as the 2nd player in from the SB is almost always wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

That would be consistent with my advice, because, I am almost always wrong. But the key word is 'almost'. I'm not so worried about the bb calling here since 1) hero needs to improve anyways and 2) should Hero improve, he can easily cr the PFR'ing LAG to cut down the bb's odds.

3 betting looses us more money when we fall behind post flop and it doesn't win us any extra money when we improve. It does, however, win us more money when with see a SD with the best hand, King high.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It has been discussed at length before, that cold-calling a raise as the 2nd player in from the SB is almost always wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

That would be consistent with my advice, because, I am almost always wrong. But the key word is 'almost'. I'm not so worried about the bb calling here since 1) hero needs to improve anyways and 2) should Hero improve, he can easily cr the PFR'ing LAG to cut down the bb's odds.

3 betting looses us more money when we fall behind post flop and it doesn't win us any extra money when we improve. It does, however, win us more money when with see a SD with the best hand, King high.

[/ QUOTE ]

KJo UI has a FAR greater chance of winning a HU pot than a multiway pot.

Say you don't 3-bet and CC instead and BB comes along (which he will do a large portion of the time). The flop then misses you. You are now in a very tough spot. The maniac is going to bet or raise whether it hit him or not. When the action comes back around to you, what is your plan now? We don't really want to give up and fold, as we could very well be ahead here. Also, the PF cold-call would be really dumb if we are going to invest 1.5 bets into a 5 (often 6) bet pot only to fold the 2/3 of the time we miss the flop. We don't want to just call c/c if we are behind, we don't have odds to draw, and we would also allow BB to see the turn cheaply and hit if we are ahead as well. Check-raising the flop when you miss seems bad as well - perhaps BB hit top or mid pair, and really likely won't fold that ever. You might as well have 3-bet PF, and got BB out of there to begin with to avoid this scenario.

Re: You\'re Not Going to Like This One
 

Villain is maniacal, but he'll lay down if its painfully clear he's beaten. Still he's not going to make it cheap to get to showdown. Still I wanted to 3-bet because KJ is so far ahead of his range.

5000 posts wewt!