Two Plus Two Older Archives

Two Plus Two Older Archives (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/index.php)
-   One-table Tournaments (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34)
-   -   Negreanu should read the STTF (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=390287)

Irieguy 12-02-2005 11:46 PM

Negreanu should read the STTF
 
Quoted from his article on the Borgata:

[ QUOTE ]
...So, instead of giving up the lead, I decided to make a half-value/half-defensive bet of $3,600; value in hope of getting paid off by a worse pair than mine, and defensive in that I might be forced to call a much larger bet if I checked.

A bet like this is a pretty common tool, but it isn’t talked about too much in the literature. Generally, a bet on the river has a clear purpose: It’s either a bluff or a value bet. However, a bet like this is one in which you are doing more than just value betting; you also are protecting yourself, or saving yourself money in many cases in which you may have been forced to check and call a large river bet.

D. Negreanu

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called a blocking bet, no0b, and 7,000 18-year old yahoos on this forum know about it.

Seriously, though, the article describes the play of a hand that is quite interesting. It's posted on pokerpages.com.

Irieguy

splashpot 12-02-2005 11:48 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
The blocking bet is pretty advanced stuff for most people.

Scuba Chuck 12-03-2005 01:18 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
What! There's other things to read besides 2+2? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

12-03-2005 01:40 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
Quoted from his article on the Borgata:

[ QUOTE ]
...So, instead of giving up the lead, I decided to make a half-value/half-defensive bet of $3,600; value in hope of getting paid off by a worse pair than mine, and defensive in that I might be forced to call a much larger bet if I checked.

A bet like this is a pretty common tool, but it isn’t talked about too much in the literature. Generally, a bet on the river has a clear purpose: It’s either a bluff or a value bet. However, a bet like this is one in which you are doing more than just value betting; you also are protecting yourself, or saving yourself money in many cases in which you may have been forced to check and call a large river bet.

D. Negreanu

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called a blocking bet, no0b, and 7,000 18-year old yahoos on this forum know about it.

Seriously, though, the article describes the play of a hand that is quite interesting. It's posted on pokerpages.com.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it matter if Daniel N doesn't use the same terminology as 7000 18-year old yahoos on this forum as long as he knows what he's talking about?

Irieguy 12-03-2005 02:08 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quoted from his article on the Borgata:

[ QUOTE ]
...So, instead of giving up the lead, I decided to make a half-value/half-defensive bet of $3,600; value in hope of getting paid off by a worse pair than mine, and defensive in that I might be forced to call a much larger bet if I checked.

A bet like this is a pretty common tool, but it isn’t talked about too much in the literature. Generally, a bet on the river has a clear purpose: It’s either a bluff or a value bet. However, a bet like this is one in which you are doing more than just value betting; you also are protecting yourself, or saving yourself money in many cases in which you may have been forced to check and call a large river bet.

D. Negreanu

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called a blocking bet, no0b, and 7,000 18-year old yahoos on this forum know about it.

Seriously, though, the article describes the play of a hand that is quite interesting. It's posted on pokerpages.com.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it matter if Daniel N doesn't use the same terminology as 7000 18-year old yahoos on this forum as long as he knows what he's talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]

When somebody uses the phrase "seriously, though," it implies that the prior sentiment was expressed in jest.

A phrase like this is a pretty common tool, but it isn't talked about much in the literature.

I shouldn't have used such an abstruse technique to satirize what I find to be an interesting contrast: published/publicized poker literature v. publicly accessible poker ramblings available on forums like this one.

Irieguy

SuitedSixes 12-03-2005 02:21 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]

Does it matter if Daniel N doesn't use the same terminology as 7000 18-year old yahoos on this forum as long as he knows what he's talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]


Daniel? Is that you?

12-03-2005 02:33 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quoted from his article on the Borgata:

[ QUOTE ]
...So, instead of giving up the lead, I decided to make a half-value/half-defensive bet of $3,600; value in hope of getting paid off by a worse pair than mine, and defensive in that I might be forced to call a much larger bet if I checked.

A bet like this is a pretty common tool, but it isn’t talked about too much in the literature. Generally, a bet on the river has a clear purpose: It’s either a bluff or a value bet. However, a bet like this is one in which you are doing more than just value betting; you also are protecting yourself, or saving yourself money in many cases in which you may have been forced to check and call a large river bet.

D. Negreanu

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called a blocking bet, no0b, and 7,000 18-year old yahoos on this forum know about it.

Seriously, though, the article describes the play of a hand that is quite interesting. It's posted on pokerpages.com.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it matter if Daniel N doesn't use the same terminology as 7000 18-year old yahoos on this forum as long as he knows what he's talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]

When somebody uses the phrase "seriously, though," it implies that the prior sentiment was expressed in jest.

A phrase like this is a pretty common tool, but it isn't talked about much in the literature.

I shouldn't have used such an abstruse technique to satirize what I find to be an interesting contrast: published/publicized poker literature v. publicly accessible poker ramblings available on forums like this one.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Is there a serious point you're trying to make of value that we all can learn from or did you just feel like poking fun?

12-03-2005 02:36 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
The blocking bet is pretty advanced stuff for most people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but Daniel N doesn't have to use 'blocking bet' in his vocabulary and he's still advanced.

Irieguy 12-03-2005 02:38 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]

Ok. Is there a serious point you're trying to make of value that we all can learn from or did you just feel like poking fun?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly poking a little fun, but also explaining why I posted the dumb comment to begin with.

Irieguy

12-03-2005 02:42 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ok. Is there a serious point you're trying to make of value that we all can learn from or did you just feel like poking fun?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly poking a little fun, but also explaining why I posted the dumb comment to begin with.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

You get an extra forty sack of Chocolate Thai for honesty. I'll be waiting on your $22 and $33 HHs after you put the blunt out. Oh, and be quick about it.

bluefeet 12-03-2005 02:52 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
Though Irie has become an adequately successful 22 player of late (despite struggling at the 10's for more than a year), he has contributed very little to this forum. Even with your shaky start put aside, he's not the type to go out of his way to be helpful - best to look elsewhere [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Hendricks433 12-03-2005 02:54 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
point? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

microbet 12-03-2005 03:00 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
I thought I was paying a reasonable amount of attention to the forum, but now I have the feeling it is swimming with gimmick accounts and inside jokes that I don't get.

Melchiades 12-03-2005 04:49 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
http://www.chrisferguson.com/cgi-bin...update.cgi?s=2

splashpot 12-03-2005 04:55 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.chrisferguson.com/cgi-bin...update.cgi?s=2

[/ QUOTE ]
He must be talking about limit poker in that article. He states that check/calling with a mediocre hand is always better than betting on the river. True in limit, but not always true in no limit as the blocking bet shows.

12-03-2005 07:15 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
I think the blocking bet's a very commonly used tool, but understanding why it works requires either brute force math (to prove +EVness) or sitting around and thinking about it for a while. I'm pretty sure many people on this forum have done neither, which isn't really a bad thing, it just means it's a thing that we can talk about without boring people.

The same thing is not true about value bets or bluffs.

fnord_too 12-03-2005 11:44 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
Actually, they talk about blocking bets a lot more in the MHNL forum.

Seriously though, I wasted two minutes of my life reading the replies to your post (and typing this).

durron597 12-03-2005 11:49 AM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]

It's called a blocking bet, no0b, and 7,000 18-year old yahoos on this forum know about it.

Seriously, though, the article describes the play of a hand that is quite interesting. It's posted on pokerpages.com.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only that, but blocking bets are so well known at this point that they often don't work anymore.

maddog2030 12-03-2005 01:31 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
Not sure I like his flop reraise in that hand.

12-03-2005 07:31 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.chrisferguson.com/cgi-bin...update.cgi?s=2

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed that Chris never mentioned the words "blocking bet". Should he be reading STTFs too?

12-03-2005 07:40 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
Though Irie has become an adequately successful 22 player of late (despite struggling at the 10's for more than a year), he has contributed very little to this forum. Even with your shaky start put aside, he's not the type to go out of his way to be helpful - best to look elsewhere [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Could it be the haze of Mauwie Wauwie? Maybe I don't need any HHs from a STTF poster who's probably never consistently played higher than $215 criticizing a World Class player---who's won WSOP bracelets and has played as high as $4000-$8000--- about not using the term "blocking bet".

bluefeet 12-03-2005 07:42 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have the feeling it is swimming with gimmick accounts

[/ QUOTE ]

bawcerelli 12-03-2005 07:55 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though Irie has become an adequately successful 22 player of late (despite struggling at the 10's for more than a year), he has contributed very little to this forum. Even with your shaky start put aside, he's not the type to go out of his way to be helpful - best to look elsewhere [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Could it be the haze of Mauwie Wauwie? Maybe I don't need any HHs from a STTF poster who's probably never consistently played higher than $215 criticizing a World Class player---who's won WSOP bracelets and has played as high as $4000-$8000--- about not using the term "blocking bet".

[/ QUOTE ]

does that affect irie's skill at the table?

12-03-2005 08:15 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though Irie has become an adequately successful 22 player of late (despite struggling at the 10's for more than a year), he has contributed very little to this forum. Even with your shaky start put aside, he's not the type to go out of his way to be helpful - best to look elsewhere [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Could it be the haze of Mauwie Wauwie? Maybe I don't need any HHs from a STTF poster who's probably never consistently played higher than $215 criticizing a World Class player---who's won WSOP bracelets and has played as high as $4000-$8000--- about not using the term "blocking bet".

[/ QUOTE ]

does that affect irie's skill at the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not, but it can definitely affect what TYPE of person you come off as, i.e. lower limit players making worthless comments about World Class players under the guise of poking fun. Skill at the table doesn't compensate for mocking arrogance.

bawcerelli 12-03-2005 08:45 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
compensate how? surely it wouldn't affect him monetarily. and isn't money the reason we play this game? if your morals say, you don't want to go over the HH of a winning player because he's a jerk, well then that's up to you. besides, irie might not have meant to post any of these messages. have you considered the possibility of a misclick?

12-03-2005 09:00 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
compensate how? surely it wouldn't affect him monetarily. and isn't money the reason we play this game? if your morals say, you don't want to go over the HH of a winning player because he's a jerk, well then that's up to you. besides, irie might not have meant to post any of these messages. have you considered the possibility of a misclick?

[/ QUOTE ]

Misclick, are you you serious? My morals have nothing to do with not wanting to go over a HH from Irie or whether he's a jerk or not. Where I come from, foul things happen to people who chose to associate with foul individuals. By first impression, I'd rather associate myself with the poster who PM'd me about his $55 HHs, regardless of whether it makes me money or not. With enough hard work and dedication, I'll make money without the benefit of Irie's winning strategies and skill. There are always more pleasant players willing to assist, you just have to locate them and ask.

The Yugoslavian 12-03-2005 09:02 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
BDACH,

Please just step away from the keyboard.....and never return.

Yugoslav

The Don 12-03-2005 09:10 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
I might be missing something but I almost never see anything about blocking bets in the STT forum. This forum can be summed up by two phrases...

"$XX: Is this a push?"

or

"OT: Blah, Blah, Blah"

Citanul had a decent post about this earlier.

Discussion on the topic is much more common in the NL cash or MTT forums.

bawcerelli 12-03-2005 09:11 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]


Misclick, are you you serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

of course i'm serious. not considering misclicks could be a major leak in your STTF reading experience. then again, i might not have meant to post this.

12-03-2005 09:15 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
Some of you guys are more worse off than Irie. I know a crew of block huggers in the Trap who would love for guys like you to make food runs for them, your treat of course.

bones 12-03-2005 09:23 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
Some of you guys are more worse off than Irie. I know a crew of block huggers in the Trap who would love for guys like you to make food runs for them, your treat of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.willcrumbley.com/albums/S...gang_signs.jpg

12-03-2005 09:27 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some of you guys are more worse off than Irie. I know a crew of block huggers in the Trap who would love for guys like you to make food runs for them, your treat of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.willcrumbley.com/albums/S...gang_signs.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect. I'll PM you the block their located at. These guys look like a couple box Chevys. Make sure they leave the plastic at home, block huggers only accept and deal in cash. That will be all.

The Yugoslavian 12-03-2005 09:28 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
DBACH,

Alright, look, Desdia.....how can you get anything out of having a bajillion accounts just to be a huge [censored] and never make it out of the $6 STTs?!?!

Just give it up bitch. Go get block huggers in the Trap to run food for you or whatever.....put some of those street smarts to use, but you gotta stop this man.

Yugoslav

bones 12-03-2005 09:34 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
DBACH,

Alright, look, Desdia.....how can you get anything out of having a bajillion accounts just to be a huge [censored] and never make it out of the $6 STTs?!?!

Just give it up bitch. Go get block huggers in the Trap to run food for you or whatever.....put some of those street smarts to use, but you gotta stop this man.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah. This forum so needed a gangsta gimmick account.

12-03-2005 09:45 PM

Re: Negreanu should read the STTF
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DBACH,

Alright, look, Desdia.....how can you get anything out of having a bajillion accounts just to be a huge [censored] and never make it out of the $6 STTs?!?!

Just give it up bitch. Go get block huggers in the Trap to run food for you or whatever.....put some of those street smarts to use, but you gotta stop this man.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah. This forum so needed a gangsta gimmick account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'm no gangsta. I don't know any either but I do know of some individuals who criminal activities are their only means of income. None of this is used as a gimmick in a poker forum.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.