If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

***** Hand History for Game (?) *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, December 15, 04:50:43 EDT 2005
Table Table 65242 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
xSeat 1: KCs13 ( $62 )
xSeat 2: thirty_se7en ( $287.15 )
xSeat 3: hbar111 ( $238.60 )
Seat 4: yearrgh ( $286 )
Seat 5: Arbo604 ( $213.70 )
xSeat 6: sled_ed ( $213.70 )
Seat 7: nightmare4ya ( $190 )
xSeat 8: komalkrishna ( $580.27 )
Seat 9: hanreich ( $159.80 )
xSeat 10: Hero ( $197 )
KCs13 posts small blind [ $1 ].
thirty_se7en posts big blind [ $2 ].

Holecards:
Dealt to Hero [J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]
hbar111 calls [ $2 ].
yearrgh folds.
Arbo604 folds.
sled_ed calls [ $2 ].
nightmare4ya folds.
komalkrishna calls [ $2 ].
hanreich folds.
Hero calls [ $2 ].
KCs13 calls [ $1 ].
thirty_se7en checks.

Flop:
[7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]
KCs13 checks.
thirty_se7en checks.
hbar111: bets $20
sled_ed calls [ $20 ].
komalkrishna: raises $40

At this point all I'm thinking is SHOULD I PUSH, since people seem interested right now.

My read on the initial bettor to the flop is that he seems like a person who overvalues his basic "good" hands (in his mind). He wanted to put it all in preflop w/ JJ and lost it. So now the guy looks to be steaming and stealing pots leading up to this hand.

The caller is 23.8%/4.5%/2.4aggro and those #s indicate he knows what he's doing. I put his hand on the straight draw, flush draw, or KJ-KA. Putting him on the Axc or Kxc would obviously be devastating and is a big factor to my decision.

The flop min-raiser seems to be on what HE thinks is a good run. His #s are 76%/19.5%/5.9aggro. I put this guy on just plain retarded-ness--not the flush draw, nothing but nothing...

So maybe it was the donk min-raising that set me off, but I shoved it in the middle. If there are no flush draws out there I'm definitely feeling good about this if I can get 2+ callers--and I think I can.....

ALL-IN Hero [ $195 ]
KCs13 folds.
thirty_se7en folds.
ALL-IN hbar111 [ $216.60 ]
ALL-IN sled_ed [ $191.70 ]
komalkrishna folds.

Main pot $634

How would others play this hand?
What would you put the flop CALLER on?
What about the min-raiser, remember his #s though?
Am I right in hoping the initial bettor calls if he's holding the King--I'm pretty sure I want him in there?

I appreciate all comments.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

I would not push all-in unless you have the opened staright flush draw and even then I may not push, why not just call the turn bet and see what happens, there is a good chance someone called your all-in with Ax of clubs

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

Am I alone in this thinking or what?

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I right in hoping the initial bettor calls if he's holding the King

[/ QUOTE ]

What king would he call a push with there that he limped with preflop?

[ QUOTE ]
Am I alone in this thinking or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a limped pot and you have at least three others very interested, making it quite possible your flush is dominated.

If it was raised preflop and you were up against 2 opponents with an OESD and the flush draw, then I would push.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

This is when you fold.
You're in a bad position relative to the action.

And only your gutshot is to the nuts.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

I hate it. You're putting it all on on a non-nut flush draw.

You better hope a non club 9 hits.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

I think this is fine if you think that it will clear your club outs, which i think that it will.

However, I don't like getting too involved in a hand like this in a limped pot just cause the benifits don't neccessarily outweight the downside of the large amount of variance that comes with it.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hate it. You're putting it all on on a non-nut flush draw.

You better hope a non club 9 hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would be wrong with a club 9, I think that is exactly what Hero wants no?

I see nothing wrong with this play, pushing will probably clear up your flush outs, very few villans have the gall to call all in on a lone flush draw. Even if only one villan comes along your coinflippin.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

i dont like this at all, you only have 4 outs to the nuts in a large, unraised, multi-way pot

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

nm

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

lol I didn't realize when I posted the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] was the straight flush. So, that means he has 4 outs instead of 3.

"I see nothing wrong with this play, pushing will probably clear up your flush outs, very few villans have the gall to call all in on a lone flush draw."

Where are you playing? I see people calling with the nutflush draw all the time. AND... if there are other 'flush outs' that you're clearing out, then he has even less outs to make his flush. Leaving him with much less then a coinflip.

Considering the action before it gets to him, you can bet that there are better draws then his out there.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, I don't like getting too involved in a hand like this in a limped pot just cause the benifits don't neccessarily outweight the downside of the large amount of variance that comes with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Point well taken, unless bankroll allows for variance.

Re: If I Think They\'re Coming Along
 

The reason I pushed instead of called was because I knew I was up against the fishy-type players (at least two of the three). I wanted to get a pot w/ 3x the buy-in while I thought I was actually a favorite to win.

RESULTS
 

Initial flop bettor holds KT (both red cards).
Initial flop caller holds AA (both red cards).

Does this change the decisions of anyone?
Knowing this do I still want it in the middle (I know I do)?
If you know you're the favorite on the flop my main question is do most people here call and wait for it or push it in?