PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

I think I botched this at the turn.

Only 30 hands w/ Villain, nothing out of line.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) converter

UTG ($9.5)
UTG+1 ($58.45)
MP1 ($11.45)
Hero ($27.7)
CO ($53.1)
Button ($24.65)
SB ($22.3)
BB ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1</font>, CO calls $1, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $1.

Turn: ($4.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3, CO folds.

River: ($10.25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB calls $20.50 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $30.75

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

I don't think I'm folding this here...

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Seems like a strange way to play a flush. What are you putting villain on? Aces up, a stupid bluff-representation, or a high flush seem like the three most likely possibilities, but I'm not sure what order those go in. I would think you're good 40% of the time here, though (66% by game theory, but you can beat more than just a bluff here.)

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

I would raise the turn, probobly $10 or so. If he calls, I would call/push the river. Unless your fairly positive that he has a flush, I make this play every time.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

I think it's fine and I probably play it the same. With a two-tone flop and some flatcalls, first thing that comes to my mind is: flush draw. On the turn, BB is saying: I made my flush. At the 25's, if you assume that they mean exactly what they are telling you by the way they bet, you wouldn't be too far off IMO. I think he hit his draw. You probably have the implied odds of filling up and extracting a lot of money from this guy on the river, so calling the turn is fine. Folding the river is fine too IMO.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Without reading your post: No.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

[ QUOTE ]
Without reading your post: No.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about after reading his post? I really think I plugged a major leak in my game when I stopped making calls like this. It's a 20$ push into a 10$ pot. And that after this guy just woke up on the turn, when the flush card hit the board... Without a read, I think it's a fold.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

[ QUOTE ]
Without reading your post: No.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

In this hand I'd raise the turn as others have suggested.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

I'm not saying that calling the turn and folding the river is correct, but what do you do if he pushes after your raise on the turn?

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Raise the turn, call a push.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn, call a push.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, I guess I'm just weak [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

You give too much credit. Betting out on this turn is more a sign that he is afraid of the flush than that he has it. Most people c/r the flush here.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Preflop is the only spot that can be debated IMO.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is the only spot that can not be debated IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP?

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn, call a push.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, I guess I'm just weak [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I would fold to the push...

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

I agree with raising but I'd probly raise a small amount maby 5$ this should be enough to turn him off a bluff, and he will probly re-raise all in if he has the flush. If he does re-raise all in now you have to think he has the flush. I would give him 80% for the flush if he does go all in. If he has the flush you have 10 outs so thats about 22%. So if he does re-raise all in you'll win if you call about .2(.95) + .8(.2) = 34%..... so I forget what your pot odds are here but its up to them. If your stack is such that you wont be able to get away from the hand if you do raise his turn bet then just go all in.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is the only spot that can be debated IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

FMP

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

My opinion is that you played this perfectly.
You should not pay off 20$ just because Villain played it this way. Actually this is very good way of playing flush and I recommend you do it in the same way because there are so many players who wont believe you.
I wouldnt raise the turn. You have many outs here to stack Villain (if you catch fullhouse there is 99% chance that you stack him if he has flush) and you really have to fold after push reraise here.

Best wishes !

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is the only spot that can be debated IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

FMP

[/ QUOTE ]
What's your play? I can possibly see raising it, but prefer to limp. I hope you weren't suggesting folding.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Open-limping that close to the button is usually no goot. But at PP NL25 full ring it's probably okay either way. People won't put moves on you when you limp there and will let you play it well postflop. But you also have good steal equity so I don't think it's a big deal what you do.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

They call too much and raise too little. I think the limp is fine. Of course, I wouldn't argue with a raise. But I think the turn is the key here. I would personally raise, since it is SO rare for someone to lead out when the flush hits, but I can see calling, too, I guess.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

In the time I dabbled in this game I found that raising preflop and betting the flop to be +EV regardless of cards. They will call preflop with trash but they won't continue past the flop without top pair or a good draw, and they don't play back at you.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Really? Even at the hundreds, I see people calling mid-, bottom-, and even under-pairs on the flop. I definitely saw it at the 25s. I'm not saying raising and betting flop is not +EV. But with 77 in MP, I think it is probably more +EV to limp, keep people in, hit a set or overpair and value bet the crap outta them.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Are you talking about the 6-max or full games? The 6-maxers are goons but the full ringers were nits. There were some clear morons sprinkled in, but most of them were pretty weak-tight.

I would expect people to be making some looser calls at the higher levels because those players are more aware that you're coming in from a steal position and may have missed the board, etc. Instead of just saying "I missed the flop, I fold." But I haven't played any full ring at the other levels so I can't verify anything.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

Right. I forgot that I only played 6m. I've never played a full ring at Party. Oops.

Thanks for the replies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about the 6-max or full games? The 6-maxers are goons but the full ringers were nits. There were some clear morons sprinkled in, but most of them were pretty weak-tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm no good at reads -- I couldn't figure out if this guy was a goon, a nit, or a moron. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Thanks for all the feedback, much appreciated.

I only limp 77, which is clearly a bit weak; I'll start mixing it up a bit. But limping and playing for the set works pretty well for me.

Given the hand to play again I would have raised the turn, probably to $8-10, to probe for the flush, and folded to a strong raise.

I'm still comfortable with the laydown. I'm sure I'm probably good a fair percentage of the time, and I can imagine occasionally calling this. But way too often these players just bet what they have, and if they have the nuts the just push it all in. Without a read, I just decided to dump it and watch this guy some more.

Re: PP25NL, Laying Down a Set
 

with CO still to act behind me on the turn, I call the turn just like you did.

after co folded, I might call the push on the river as most guys check when they hit the flush on the turn.

I don't want to raise the turn as it would be a significant amount and I'm charging myself extra to boat on the river.

whether I call or fold river is heavily read dependent. The more solid the player, the more I lean towards fold.