Most difficult form of poker?
 

I am writing a research paper for a college course on "What is the most difficult form of poker to play?"

That is, which form of poker requires the player to make the toughest decisions?

As an overall poker enthusiast who enjoys playing all the games, I think it's pot-limit omaha hi-low. Anyone agree?

Discuss.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Indian poker.

The toughest game. Period.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

<font color="yellow"> BEEDOGS </font>

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Chinese poker, probably.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
which form of poker requires the player to make the toughest decisions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Massapequa Stud/8 with all tens in the deck removed.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Never heard of it.

By "most difficult" I also mean in which game would an amatuer get absolutely destroyed by a skilled player?

For example, in a heads up no-limit hold'em freezout with not-too-deep stacks, an idiot could beat Phil Ivey probably 25-30% of the time just by going all-in pre-flop every hand.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

7-Card No-Peek.

And it's not even close.

-ZEN

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

I mean a popular game that's spread in most online places. Not some rare variation please.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Well you should've said that. Anyway paradise spreads Massapequa.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Yes, sorry for not clearing that up earlier.

Among the major games.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, sorry for not clearing that up earlier.

Among the major games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have this feeling your paper is going to suck.

Find a new topic, seriously

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

I'm not trying to win a Pulitzer here.

Just trying to büllshit up a paper on something I'm actually interested in, instead of some generic crap.

Any real answer to my original question?

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Obviously not.

Stop farming the collective genius of twoplustwo and come up with your own ideas.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Farming the collective genius of twoplustwo?

LOL! Seriously, this is one of the most hostile forums I've seen.

I have my ideas. Just asking for some other opinions in a place where I thought I'd get some. Guess not...

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Farming the collective genius of twoplustwo?

LOL! Seriously, this is one of the most hostile forums I've seen.

I have my ideas. Just asking for some other opinions in a place where I thought I'd get some. Guess not...

[/ QUOTE ]

Responders like them are the reason many people believe all poker players are scumbags.
FWIW, I think O/8 is a good choice. You can obviously talk about knowing when you might get quartered, and often having to fold second and third nut hands.. I think you're on the right track.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

You were supposed to fire UP!! We both fired UP!

-ZEN

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am writing a research paper for a college course on "What is the most difficult form of poker to play?"


[/ QUOTE ]

David or Mason, can't remember which, discusses this in one of their essay collections. The conclusion was high-low split with a declare. Of course, this isn't really played anymore other than in some home games. Still, it's a tough game.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am writing a research paper for a college course on "What is the most difficult form of poker to play?"

That is, which form of poker requires the player to make the toughest decisions?

As an overall poker enthusiast who enjoys playing all the games, I think it's pot-limit omaha hi-low. Anyone agree?

Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Judging by your earlier standard of "what breaks the fish quickest," Seven card stud hi-lo no qualifier is a game where the fish get busted so quickly they took it out of most cardrooms. It isn't spread online AFAIK, but among the popular online games I'd have to think seven card stud (hi only or hi-lo), simply because there's so much information that a novice overlooks.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Is the purpose of your paper to win a Nobel Prize? Or to impress a prof that you know what the hell you're writing about? That you've done your research and used good thought processes? That you're capable of producing a paper worthy of reading, is informative, etc., etc.?

I'd think the fact you've chosen Game A, ingnoring Games B, C, D, and so on, indicates your belief Game A is, indeed, the toughest. And your paper demonstrates your case. The next guy may not feel that way because A's a snap to him and B isn't. Let him write his own paper and prove his own case.

Whatever you decide, g/l.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

There's no question.

The answer is Carribean Stud, it also offers the biggest edge to the skilled player.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously not.

Stop farming the collective genius of twoplustwo and come up with your own ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

this was brilliant haha

anyway by far the hardest game is limit holdem

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Thanks for the responses.

I'm leaning towards pot-limit omaha 8 because on the river you often have to make a tough laydown with second best hands, although often the bettor is making an elimination play when he's betting with one-way nuts and trying to eliminate a marginal (but better than his) hand the other way. Or in a multi-way pot a guy might be betting a a strong (but non-nut) hand both ways to get somebody with a stronger hand one way to fold.

I agree that a fish busts quickest in a 7-card hi-lo split game with no qualifier, because he will get constantly free-rolled, but the basic skills in that game are relatively simple compared to some other games, IMO (the fish lack the basic skills obviously).

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Never heard of it.

By "most difficult" I also mean in which game would an amatuer get absolutely destroyed by a skilled player?

For example, in a heads up no-limit hold'em freezout with not-too-deep stacks, an idiot could beat Phil Ivey probably 25-30% of the time just by going all-in pre-flop every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hate to bump this thread, but I am having a really [censored] day at work, so wtf not..

Anyhow, this argument is ridiculous.. that would suggest that any no-limit game takes less skill to beat than any limit/pot-limit game. Actually, i think No-Limit holdem takes the most skill because there is so much variance and so much depends on reading the player and not on your own cards/board.

I think you could write a computer program that could beat pot limit Omaha8 a lot easier than you could write one to beat NL holdem. That game is so much about position and starting hands that the really tough river decisions are much less important. Most of your profit can come from having people drawing dead after the flop and still calling your bets.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

I grew up playing 7-stud hi/lo with my uncles -- river, bet, declare, bet. You can go both ways but if you lose either, obviously you lose it all. Awesome game, the online 7s H/L seems like a weak comparison to me.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

I've heard it said that pot-limit is actually more difficult than no-limit, because in the former you have to manage the size of the pot to give yourself the ability to bet big on a later street. This means having to raise early with a speculative hand so you have a chance of getting all-in when you make the nuts on the turn or river.

I lack the mathematical mojo to make an authoritative judgement over whether a pot-limit flop game is more likely to bust the pigeons than limit 7CS H/L. It also depends on what you mean by "pigeon."

Good luck on your paper.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

I read this a couple of years ago. It depends on your view of the important decisions.

1) If the gating factor is the complexity of the important decisions - Limit Hold'em

2) If it's the impact of the important decisions - NL Hold'em

3) If its the frequency of important decisions - High-low declare.

I don't know if I agree with this 100%, but it is an interesting way to view the game.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

By "most difficult" I also mean in which game would an amatuer get absolutely destroyed by a skilled player?


Different question. The game in which the expert has the biggest edge over a novice is Stud/8.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[/ QUOTE ] I really hate to bump this thread, but I am having a really [censored] day at work, so wtf not..

Anyhow, this argument is ridiculous.. that would suggest that any no-limit game takes less skill to beat than any limit/pot-limit game. Actually, i think No-Limit holdem takes the most skill because there is so much variance and so much depends on reading the player and not on your own cards/board.

I think you could write a computer program that could beat pot limit Omaha8 a lot easier than you could write one to beat NL holdem. That game is so much about position and starting hands that the really tough river decisions are much less important. Most of your profit can come from having people drawing dead after the flop and still calling your bets.

Just my 2 cents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say no skill is involved in no limit but in NL freeze out so much of the skill advantage of a better player can be negated by just going all in every hand. Ironically , Mike Sexton actually wrote an article about this in the recent issue of cardplayer where he actuallly said a pro would only be a 2:1 favorite against someone's whos never played poker before because the novice can just keep going all in. He also said Pot Limit is much more difficult than NL.

Not sure i'd agree exactly with sexton on the odds but overall i agree with this.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Never heard of it.

By "most difficult" I also mean in which game would an amatuer get absolutely destroyed by a skilled player?

For example, in a heads up no-limit hold'em freezout with not-too-deep stacks, an idiot could beat Phil Ivey probably 25-30% of the time just by going all-in pre-flop every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any type of hi/low game - skilled players destroy rookies given enough hands to play.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

This is not at all an easy question to answer. Different games may be more difficult in different ways. For instance one game may be more difficult for a begginer to learn, while another more difficult for the advanced player to master. You probably need to make the question more specific in order to come up with a decent answer.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Farming the collective genius of twoplustwo?

LOL! Seriously, this is one of the most hostile forums I've seen.

I have my ideas. Just asking for some other opinions in a place where I thought I'd get some. Guess not...

[/ QUOTE ]

You should see what they say in the "Do Your Own Homework" forum

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

Pot limit omaha is probebly the eaiset game to make money with. I seriously read a guide on how to play, started playing online and was up in 5 minutes and never looked back.

Its so much eaiser to make decisions in omaha than it is in holdem.

The most difficult game is definatly 7 card stud. There so much going on, and if you have a large table of players, it can get quite crazy trying to calculate your outs.

The again, any community card game is eaiser.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I think O/8 is a good choice. You can obviously talk about knowing when you might get quartered, and often having to fold second and third nut hands.. I think you're on the right track.

[/ QUOTE ]

O8 sounds good to me, and so does limit Omaha, since a novice wouldn't realize at first how easily it is to get sucked out.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chinese poker, probably.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the easiest, by a lot.

Re: Most difficult form of poker?
 

The most difficult form to learn to play well might be Stud 8 since you have so much to keep track of between trying to put others on hands and remembering folded cards.

I think experts have a bigger advantage over novices at pot-limit games vs. either limit or NL. Fish make bigger mistakes than they do at limit, and can’t take away the experts post-flop skill by pushing like they can at NL. And PLO8 is probably the most complex pot limit game.

So I’d say one of those two.

-g