Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

This hand is from the stars $50r 2 nights ago. Average was ~10k, and I had no real reads on villains.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t12495)
Hero (t14330)
UTG+1 (t26313)
MP1 (t14400)
MP2 (t9565)
CO (t19255)
Button (t7420)
SB (t5050)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls t200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls t200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t875) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t200</font>, BB calls t200, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1000</font>, MP2 calls t1000, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t1800</font>,

What is my action here? Both villains are deeply stacked, and BB is playing it like he has a made straight. Thoughts?

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

i'd call here and plan on getting it all-in if no 4 or 6 hits.

yeah, he's playing it like he has 46, but he could also be a donk with a lot of other hands.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

Call, and check out the turn, hope that the board pairs. You also have position to see if they slow down on the turn and can take free card if possible.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

schwza,
what other hands do you put BB on in this situation? He checked PF from BB with several limpers - pretty much eliminating premium pairs. He then smooth-called SB miniraise on flop, and miniraised himself after my raise and MP2's call.

What other hands besides 64 (or 77, 33) does he play this way?
Keeping in mind that in general players in the stars 50r post-rebuy period are pretty solid.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

This could be an overpair as easily as a made straight, although its hard to say for sure since the BB got to see a free flop and can be holding literally any 2. With no reads it's hard to put him on a hand at all but are you really going to lay down a flopped set here? You limped the PP specifically to hit your set and you did so I wouldn't fold just yet. The other question to ask is WTF is MP2 calling with? Based on his postflop action I think his most likely range is an overpair to the board and not a set or a straight, maybe even A3,A7, A5 (with A5 being rather unlikely) and if either of these two are donkeys they could easily be overvaluing any Ace.

With about 5k in the pot and 800 needed to call you're getting the right odds to draw at your 7 outs to a full house or quads, and if the turn bricks you pickup 3 more outs for a redraw on the river. The problem here is MP2 and whether or not you're going to end up sandwiched in between another raise or, even worse, someone pushing all-in. Based on the fact that MP2 didn't reraise you originally I'd say that if he is going to hang around at all he's probably going to call again and not raise.

With all that considered I would probably call here and push any safe card (any non 4 or 6) on the turn. If MP2 raised and there was more action on the flop I would push right here and hope that one of the two will call holding an overpair or on a draw. If someone really did spike a set of sevens or straight on the flop, so be it.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

No strenght pre-flop &amp; you have a set. I wouldn't be surprised to see MP2 on a draw by his passive play and BB on something like A7. You have them both covered.

I think this is an easy push AI.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

[ QUOTE ]
What other hands besides 64 (or 77, 33) does he play this way?
Keeping in mind that in general players in the stars 50r post-rebuy period are pretty solid.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think a solid player plays any hand this way. hands you might see include any 2 pr, as well as 7x. also a dumbly played 88-TT. 46 is more likely than any one hand, but there are a lot of hands that are not impossible.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

[ QUOTE ]
No strenght pre-flop &amp; you have a set. I wouldn't be surprised to see MP2 on a draw by his passive play and BB on something like A7. You have them both covered.

I think this is an easy push AI.

[/ QUOTE ]

No strength preflop is exactly why you are worried in this situation. hands like 33, 46, and 77 all are unlikely to show any strenth preflop. I'm obviously not worried about an overpair.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

im assuming this hand was out of the rebuy period?

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

[ QUOTE ]
im assuming this hand was out of the rebuy period?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, about 10 minutes past the rebuy period.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

i don't think that any one is suggesting to do anything but call (right?) so how about we see what the turn is and what the SB's action is and make a plan from there?

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

33 isnt a concern as well, I think the only hands you are worried about is 4 6 and 77. BB could easiy be holding 73 or an outside shot of 75. So your only beat two ways. Set over set happens however unlikley. Calling the third raise will should set alarms off in the BB head if he doesnt have 4 6 or 7 7. Call the flop, and I actucally like a check behind on the turn. It will induce a bet from a worse hand on the river or simply create a cheper showdown without going broke. And if the board pairs im sure their is only one soloution that comes to mind.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

i think im peeling here.

no way BB has an overpair here. maybe like a 1% chance. (all these percentages are somewhat arbitrary, btw)

also like a 5% chance that he has a naked 7.

and maybe like a 5% chance he is (terribly) playing 86 like this (ew).

probably give him another, i dunno, 10% chance of just being a complete idiot.

which leaves us with 80% of the time he has 46, 73, 75, 53, 33, 77.

fairly ugly situation.

plus, wtf does mp2 have?? cold called a bet, a call, and a raise? yeesh.


i would be very interested in hearing some of the deeper stack NL cash game players weigh in. because i dont know what to do here.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

My guess at BB's range is two pair (75, 35, 73), straight (64), overpair that doesn't raise preflop (88,99,TT), set (33, 77), top pair + gutshot (76,74), and for donkey equity 78.

I think that observing this range makes it clear that raising is wrong (raising let's him get away from hands that are drawing very slim like 76, 74, and maybe 88,99,TT, and costs you lots against 64 and 77.

I may even play a turn blank passively, as we're basically WA/WB here.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

Of course you call here, unless you want to make it 4K and then barf and fold to a push or something.

If the turn is a blank and he bets 4K in that particular tournament, I can see myself folding this. Any other amount, any weakness, or a check, and I'm going to bet/call with plans to raise the river.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

Well, as is the general consensus, I called, and planned to reevaluate on the the turn.
However, MP2 raised to 4200 (2600 more). After thinking for some time, BB smooth calls, and action is back to me.
What now?

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

fold that ish real quicklike

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

Lol, they're both on crack. BB doesn't have the nuts (so probably 2 pair) and MP2 has threes, sevens or nothing much at all like an overpair.

I think I push now and get this over with.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I push now and get this over with.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

boy you craaaaaaaaazy

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lol, they're both on crack. BB doesn't have the nuts (so probably 2 pair) and MP2 has threes, sevens or nothing much at all like an overpair.

I think I push now and get this over with.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, my thoughts exactly, i mean WTF?
So yeah, I pushed, both instacalled and flipped over their 64. Ah well.

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

Cool, the two of them gave you odds to fill up [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped middle set with heavy action (stars $50r)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, as is the general consensus, I called, and planned to reevaluate on the the turn.
However, MP2 raised to 4200 (2600 more). After thinking for some time, BB smooth calls, and action is back to me.
What now?

[/ QUOTE ]

When a limped pot has a possible straight on the flop, and the pot then gets big, a straight is usually out.