String bet question
 

I was playing 15/30 at the Wynn last weekend and I raised AQ pre-flop and was cold called by a crappy player.

The flop came Queen high. I bet and he called.

On the turn, I bet again. He took six red chips off his stack, reached out onto the table (over the line on the table where one would normally call) and placed the chips on the table without taking his hand off of the chips, then said, "Raise" and went back to his stack to get more chips.

Is this a string raise?

Everyone at the table including the dealer inisisted that it wasn't . Now here is the funny part, after inisisting that it was a string-raise I said, "reraise".

Re: String bet question
 

not a string raise. it's similar to chess, if your hands are still in contact w/ the chips, you can make a verbal indication of what you want to do and it's fine.

Re: String bet question
 

Soss: I don't think this one is quite that clear. We need Randy to weigh in.

Re: String bet question
 

Doesn't that go against the whole reason for having a string bet rule?

The guy puts his chips on the table and all he has to do is release his fingers in order to complete the bet. Now he looks up and sees that I am not happy that he is calling and he decides to raise. If he sees me licking my lips can he now take his bet back and fold.

I have the same problem with people who take chips off of their stack and then use them to check.

In AC the rule is that if you move your chips in front of your cards, it is a bet. I don't know if this applies to calls, but it should.

Re: String bet question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Soss: I don't think this one is quite that clear. We need Randy to weigh in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would really want to be there in person to rule on this.

If the player brought some chips froward, held them out there for a bit and then said raise I would say this is a string raise. If the player came forward and immediately stated raise I would allow the raise. The player cannot give an indication that he wants to call and then raise based on the reaction to his call.

The significance of the line would also make a difference in the decision. I would prefer that a line always be used an an ergonomics line (that is have no effect on the rules, but if something the dealers needs to reach is short of the lien they should tell the player to push it forward). I have never worked in a room with a betting line, but if this is a betting line the decision is much less clear cut (which is why I hate the idea of a betting line, it introduces an argumetn of was te line crossed and how much was in the players ahnd when they crossed the line).

Re: String bet question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now here is the funny part, after inisisting that it was a string-raise I said, "reraise".

[/ QUOTE ]

So... if you were glad he raised you, why did you complain about it?

Re: String bet question
 

I don't know if the line on the table means anything. Basically he took the chips, reached his hand out beyond the line and placed them on the table without taking his hand off. Then he said raise and went back to get 6 more chips. I don't think he did it in reaction to anything I did. It was clear that his original intention was to call, but he changed his mind - too late in my opinion (Even though I had him out-kicked and really wanted him to raise)

It is possible that he had the chips hovering slightly above the surface of the table, but if it were a football game and I challenged the call the video replay would be inconclusive.

Re: String bet question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now here is the funny part, after inisisting that it was a string-raise I said, "reraise".

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So... if you were glad he raised you, why did you complain about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't complaining, I just wanted to know the rule.

Re: String bet question
 

You should act on what you believe happened. That is, if he intended to call, and then changed his mind, you should call a string raise. If you feel he intended to raise, you should allow it.

The guys who are angling by watching their opponent's reaction usually have enough chips in their hand to raise and then decide to either call or raise depending on their read of their opponent. I can't recall a guy putting out only enough chips to call and then saying raise as an angle before going back for the additional chips.

Re: String bet question
 

That's not correct, at least where I play. The chips go forward onto the table as if to call, it's a call whether you release them or not.

Re: String bet question
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's not correct, at least where I play. The chips go forward onto the table as if to call, it's a call whether you release them or not.

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A good way to determine if a string bet has occurred is if they player would be required to leave the chips in the pot they cannot raise, bu if they coudl retian their chips and fold they can still raise.

Re: String bet question
 

All of the cardrooms here would consider this a string bet.

Re: String bet question
 

This is totally a string bet at the Oklahoma casinos I play at and it's not close. Poker isn't chess, the line is an action line for betting, once the chips cross the line they speak for themselves unless there was a prior verbal declaration. In other words, if he pushed enough chips for a call that's a call, if he pushed 1.5x the chips required or more it's a raise.

I take it the turn was an ace, by the way?

Re: String bet question
 

i'm sure this was discussed on here ad naseum, but on the WSOP coverage, there is a hand where matasow seemingly makes a string "check" or "fold" i can't remember which. he has chips in his hand and moves it forward towards the center of the table, pauses. looks at his opponent. then pulls them back. what were peoples thoughts on this move?

Re: String bet question
 

It was an angle shoot, and I thought it sad. I also thought the dealer/floorman should have called him on it. That is, of course, assuming it's the same hand I think it was. I am guessing it is. :-)

Re: String bet question
 

i accidently did this once and had to take my raise back, im pretty sure i would have won the pot if they let me keep in it, cuz the guy behind me made runner runner 2 pair [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: String bet question
 

OK, that enough debate, how did the hand finish?

Re: String bet question
 

string bet, if his hand was still moving forward while he was putting the call down that would be an acceptable raise, once the chips are there it cannot be called a raise.

in matusow's wsop hand he ended up putting those chips in anyway, i was surprised they didn't do anything when he pulled them back initially though...

Re: String bet question
 

at canterbury it would not be called a string raise. the minute he takes his hands off of his chips it would though.

Re: String bet question
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm sure this was discussed on here ad naseum, but on the WSOP coverage, there is a hand where matasow seemingly makes a string "check" or "fold" i can't remember which. he has chips in his hand and moves it forward towards the center of the table, pauses. looks at his opponent. then pulls them back. what were peoples thoughts on this move?

[/ QUOTE ]

No Limit is different.

For example, when you lead bet you haven't bet until you release the chips, so taking a stack of twenty chips and cutting off six or eight chips is usually accepted here in Los Angeles.

There isn't a forward motion rule in no limit, probably because many players arrange their chips in front of their stacks before deciding what to do - this could be easily confused with forward motion.

I think Matasow was facing a bet. His move was to push chips out and then take them back without releasing them. I thought it looked pretty shady but it probably isn't against the rules as they are currently written. That said, I would think CLEAR forward motion would constitute at least a call when facing a bet, but my mind has been in computer breakdown hell so don't hold me to it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

Re: String bet question
 

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There isn't a forward motion rule in no limit, probably because many players arrange their chips in front of their stacks before deciding what to do - this could be easily confused with forward motion.

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This is related to the key difference; with no forward motion in NL the NL players need to learn to wait until the player in front of them has completed their action.

Re: String bet question
 

This is not a string raise. The player verbally indicated raise so he can go back to his stack to count out the appropriate amount of checks. If he had said nothing, it would have been a string raise and he could have only called

Re: String bet question
 

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This is not a string raise. The player verbally indicated raise so he can go back to his stack to count out the appropriate amount of checks. If he had said nothing, it would have been a string raise and he could have only called

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Youre wrong. Its not that black and white. If the player says raise before he brings chips out, its very clear raise. But in this case he said raise after he had brought chips out. Verbal action is binding, but it cant change the action that has happend before. I say string-raise.