Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Anybody else experiencing this? I've worked my way up from the microlimits to play $200 max NL. So with multitabling it's not unusual for me to have $1000 on the tables at any one time. I've achieved a skill which I think is necessary for successful play, which is that I feel comfortable risking a lot of money to pursue a thin edge.

The side effect of this is that it makes me care a lot less about throwing money around in the real world. Before I played poker, being a grad student, I was very frugal. Example: there's a soda machine at work that sells cans for 60 cents. I would rather buy 12-packs at the grocery store and bring them in to save the 30 cents a can. Going out to eat with my wife costs about $20. We tried to not go out too much and make things at home instead. But now, I can toss out $20 as a standard continuation bet.

Part of it is that poker is bringing in enough money that we don't have to scrimp as much, but I also feel like routinely betting hundreds of dollars is loosening my spending standards, to the point where I just don't care about a few dollars any more.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

thats a problem I'd like to have

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Where can I get a 12-pack of Pepsi for $3.60?

Deciding what stakes to play is when you need to think about the money as real money. Once you made the decision to sit down at a table, whether it's .05/.10 micro limits or $200 NL, it's all about +EV decisions and the real-life value of your bets don't (shouldn't) count. On the flip side, there is no monetary +EV in going out to eat at a restaurant (there may be emotional +EV {if you don't eat like a slob} ), but you're not going to make money by spending foolishly, just like wild aggression at the table is sure to fail. So, make your real-life spending reflect your poker play: reduce -EV situations, money you don't spend (losing bets you don't call) is money you earn.

Crap, starting to sound like a 2+2'er.

Woe is me
 

"Help me! I have so much money I no longer care."

pm me and I'll give you my neteller account number for deposit.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Just the opposite for me. I remember very well what it was like not having much cash. I don't want to go back to that.

I just recently told someone how some of my buds think it's odd that I can have a grand or 2 on a table, yet hem and haw over a purchase at a store for only a fraction of that.

b

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Despite some of the ridiculing responses, I am right there with you on this one.

I have been playing various levels of NL the past couple of months and losing a $2000 pot does "desensitize" you a little bit.

My spending habits have definitely been poor lately.

$20 for going out to dinner with the wife? My standard continuation bet is $40 and my girl is a cheap date.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

If you are taking care to grow your bankroll by steadily plowing some part of your winnings back in it, and also your backroll (i.e. savings, 6 months+ expenses - a bankroll provides for a losing streak but NOT living expenses which normally are paid by winnings), plus investing a portion if you desire, then it is like you got a raise at work and of course you would live a little larger. How much larger is up to you.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

i know how you feel.

yesterday i was sitting with $4k on four tables, it was quite a sight for me since only a year ago i was working for $7 an hour and never seemed to have money.

it concerns me a little bit (as I spend money carelessly like you) because if i was still conservative I could be saving up a lot more money.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

[ QUOTE ]

I just recently told someone how some of my buds think it's odd that I can have a grand or 2 on a table, yet hem and haw over a purchase at a store for only a fraction of that.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm similar to that. I have about 3k now in my bankroll online, but I never think of that as "real" money. I might have $1000 in play at 3-4 tables and I don't ever really think of it as money. It's more like my score. I'm annoyed when my score drops, happy when it goes up.

Now, 3k in my real life, that's HUGE! I suppose its a good thing my mind divorces the two. If I worried about $20 here and there at poker I'd be a crappy player.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

[ QUOTE ]
Where can I get a 12-pack of Pepsi for $3.60?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you implying this would be a good price? I never spend more than $2.50 for a 12-pack. Occassionally I can find 24-packs for $4.50... but I will never buy pop when it's not on sale. It's -EV to pay $6 for a 24-pack when I won't have to wait more than a week to find it on sale somewhere without going out of my way.

I feel bad about spending more than $5 on a meal.

I would much rather use my comps to grab some food at the deli instead of a restaurant, because the comps will not cover a tip at the restaurant. In fact, I was secretly glad that I received such ridiculously poor service on one trip that I could justify stiffing the waitress.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

i'm more with you bernie.


the exception is that my GF and I go out to some nicer dinners and it's not a big deal and I really don't even notice the check (particularly when I've been running well).

This is as opposed to when we first started dating and I was pretty damn broke and she HAD to pick up the check a few times because I just couldn't.


My tipping is a little more generous too (for waitresses, etc)...but I have never been much of a skimper on that I don't think.


Other than not caring so much about dinners and entertainment....I will still go an extra block to save $0.02 on gas....or I'll hit the 2-for-Tuesday special at Subway because I feel good about getting a couple of foot-longs for $7.30 or something.


Looking at the flights to Vegas for my WSOP appearance I kind of laughed at myself for noticing one flight that was $20 cheaper than another.
I was only playing 4-tables of 5/10 while I was looking at the flights....And I thought it was weird that on one screen I was noticing a measly $20 difference...while on another table I was having some regular swings that were obviously much more than that.
On the table, if I flop a big-hand, bet at it, and induce a bunch of folds so that I only take in a $20 pot I will be a little disappointed that that is ALL I got.
On the other screen....I'm debating whether I want to screw around with my departure time too much because I feel bad paying $405 instead of $385 for a flight.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

over a month this past semester, I built my bankroll from $50 to $550 on party poker. I thought nothing of it. then I took a step up in limits, and lost it all. I'm still trying to get my head around how much money I made in such little time, and how little it meant to me when it was on the site. but I guess it's just part of the business.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Penny-wise, pound-foolish.

Newfound wealth is really an eye-opening experience, as it taught me the inherent futility of obtaining it. I did the whole "spend like there's no tomorrow" when I first started making substantial money in poker, but I eventually realized there were only so many things I could buy that I really wanted.

Enjoy your newfound wealth for a little while and upgrade the little things, but stay away from the large purchases and "flavor of the week" impulses. Invest wisely and enjoy the little things in life. Don't stress about where you buy gas and how much your dinner was, think bigger.

DN

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

There's a huge difference between losing $150 in one hand where you made a bad read, or suffered a bad beat, then spending $150. In the former case you expect that by doing similar thigns in similar situations you will make teh $150 more than you lose. Putting your money at risk when you have the best of it is vastly different then just spending it.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Mason has no idea, but he's about to get a positively brilliant article on systematic desensitization and gambling. Hopefully it will show up in next month's internet magazine. Stay tuned.

-Dr. Milo

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

i imagine that i have the same problem. my monthly expenses are relatively astronomical. im spending like an extra $700 over my approximated monthly budget and i have no idea what im spending it on. its not even like im buying furniture with that money. i approximate that i spend $600 on food a month. i basically throw dollar bills around like im rockefeller.

its not good.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

One very obvious issue that I neglected to mention.

I pretty much have enough money to purchase a semi-decent car if I wanted to.
But right now I'm more focused on building my bankroll and just don't want to splurge.

I'm also going to take some of my left-over W$ on Stars and play a couple prelim events at the WSOP for possibly up to $8k in entry-fees (although I will likely not have THAT many W$).
Obviously I could sell these W$ for cash and do okay...but I've decided to buy my way into a couple of prelim events instead.


The prelim events don't sound like an extraordinary expense if you are doing decently multi-tabling the 5/10 game and/or have a decent bankroll or whatever.


But it does feel strange that I have a fairly reasonable amount of money and will be possible blowing quite a bit of W$ that COULD have been converted to cash on these prelim events...
YET I still am driving around in my dented 96 Chevy-Cavalier with almost 170k miles.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Oh I know. THe night I dropped 4k in the bellagio 80/160 (superbowl weekend shot) I drove hom in my 89 toyota corolla. I also drove home from the PPM 10k richer in that same car worth generously $1k.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Funnily enough, I just finished the Al Alvarez book about poker, 'The Biggest Game in Town'. There's a section in it about how high rollers lose monetary perspective - one goes in a hamburger place, and only has hundreds and they can't break it for him! Another has a photographer trying to sell them pictures for $75, and they all grumble cos they got no change, so he just changes the price to $100, and they're all happy to pay!

Good book!

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I worried about $20 here and there at poker I'd be a crappy player

[/ QUOTE ]

It's ok to worry about this away from the table for non-poker related things.

b

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

[ QUOTE ]
One very obvious issue that I neglected to mention.

I pretty much have enough money to purchase a semi-decent car if I wanted to.
But right now I'm more focused on building my bankroll and just don't want to splurge.

I'm also going to take some of my left-over W$ on Stars and play a couple prelim events at the WSOP for possibly up to $8k in entry-fees (although I will likely not have THAT many W$).
Obviously I could sell these W$ for cash and do okay...but I've decided to buy my way into a couple of prelim events instead.


The prelim events don't sound like an extraordinary expense if you are doing decently multi-tabling the 5/10 game and/or have a decent bankroll or whatever.


But it does feel strange that I have a fairly reasonable amount of money and will be possible blowing quite a bit of W$ that COULD have been converted to cash on these prelim events...
YET I still am driving around in my dented 96 Chevy-Cavalier with almost 170k miles.

[/ QUOTE ]

People ask me all the time if I'm getting a new car. I have a '98 van that's paid for and still running great even with 160k miles. Given where I live, I don't drive as much anymore. Why would I need a new car?

Trade in has crossed my mind. But no way am I going back to making payments on something new.

Poker is a low consumption lifestyle, Imo.

b

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Sounds like you eat out alot.

b

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Yeah, I think we live in different areas of the country. Price of food in the northeast is a lot higher.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

i think this is natural. i have also, slowly, become desensitized to the value of money. of course right now i am working on cutting down on my grocery bills and eating out less and attempting to regain some sense in protecting my real-life bankroll.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

[ QUOTE ]
Where can I get a 12-pack of Pepsi for $3.60?


[/ QUOTE ]

Regularly on sale 2 for $5 in maryland. Regular price is like $4.50.

Greg

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

Winning poker means more money.

Spending means less money.

Once you keep that in perspective (and the fact that the potsize is not equal to your actual win rate) I think it helps.

However, when you can make money as easily as this, I am finding that I too feel that it does tend to lose some value.

I am just hoping that when I grow my bankroll large enough that I can start investing it rather then spending it. I want to see a return on my work for years to come. I would love for my poker winnings to be converted into passive income.

Greg

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

What I've decided is that my TIME is worth a lot of money. So while I don't buy more things, I'm willing to pay a lot more than I used to for things (like cabs or non-stop flights) that save me significant amounts of time. I'm also more likely to buy things quickly, without spending hours comparison shopping, and to buy from convenient places rather than cheap places.

I remember the first time I held $10000 in hundred-dollar bills. It felt surreal, I was grinning like a madman and flipping the bills around like crazy. Now it's just a heavy lump.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

I really don't see a value in the money I have playing poker at internet. They are like play money for me. That's great since it makes me focus on only making +EV plays. I'm playing 2/4 now, but I think my attitude might change if I move to higher limits (but that's more b/c I might feel I'm getting outplayed when facing better opponents).

I'm also a student and have being frugal, but now when playing poker and earning money I toss money around me. That's not b/c I'm used doing it at the poker table, but rather that I have more money and don't need to worry about going broke.

Re: Poker throwing off my sense of proportion with money
 

You can't take it with you.

Make sure you are saving for your long term goals and live life and enjoy with the rest.