A 99 hand
 

Party 3/6(6 max 6 players). New to the table villian hasn't been out of line during the few orbits i have been there. He has been sucked out on a couple of times and has been berating players and seems a little tilty.

Pre flop: Folds to me in the CO and i open raise 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], folds to BB who calls.

Flop(2 players 4.5sb): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB donks [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] and i call.

Turn(2 players 3.25bb): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB bets and i call.

River(2 players 5.25bb): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks and i check.

Okay his flop donk threw me and i was unsure how to deal with it. I had a hard time believing someone donks an ace here maybe a king or flush draw which i am behind both on the turn. Is this pot just small enough to let this go on the flop? Since i did stay in the hand should i have bet the river? This was one of those hands where i had no clue so i just called down.

Re: A 99 hand
 

I think you should have raised this flop, you will then often get to showdown cheaply and may not have to put any money in. You have a lot of fold equity by raising this flop.

I don't know why you call this turn if you are behind a K and a flush draw to a 9. You are getting 4.25:1 on the call and you don't have implied odds if you aren't betting this when checked to.

You also have reverse implied odds which are very high when you make the flush and lose.

I let this go on the turn played as you did. If I did't I bet this river when checked to.

True

Re: A 99 hand
 

Thanks True. Are you bet/folding the turn if just called on the flop raise?

Re: A 99 hand
 

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Thanks True. Are you bet/folding the turn if just called on the flop raise?


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I would

Re: A 99 hand
 

I don't understand why you didn't bet the river.

Re: A 99 hand
 

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I don't understand why you didn't bet the river.

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me neither..

Re: A 99 hand
 

Raising the flop isn't a good plan. Fold equity isn't important here, because they're folding a bluff, basically.

I would've raised the turn to take a free showdown or bet a spade river.

Re: A 99 hand
 

I drop this on the flop against alot of opponents. This is just an ugly hand where good stuff doesn't happen unless you hit one of your two outs. The pot's 2BB's and by calling the flop you get into alot of crappy situations.

Your turn call looks good, (although you could be drawing to 2 outs at this point).

Your river check behind is attrocious. He's got a scared A here a whole lot. Easy value bet/call.

Re: A 99 hand
 

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Thanks True. Are you bet/folding the turn if just called on the flop raise?


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I would

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I would never raise this flop.

If I did raise this flop I am DEFINITELY checking behind this turn. Check out the "checking with outs" chapter in SSH. We don't want to get C/R'd here and pretty much any hand that villian's got here is doing so except a lone king. That's not folding ever, so we have really no fold equity. Betting this turn after raising this flop is probably the least profitable line we could come up with for this hand.


edit: To be more clear. The only reason to raise that flop is because we suspect the villian is on a spade draw. No K or A is ever folding here. When that spade falls on the turn, there is absolutely no reason to bet.

Re: A 99 hand
 

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Thanks True. Are you bet/folding the turn if just called on the flop raise?


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I would

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I would never raise this flop.

If I did raise this flop I am DEFINITELY checking behind this turn. Check out the "checking with outs" chapter in SSH. We don't want to get C/R'd here and pretty much any hand that villian's got here is doing so except a lone king. That's not folding ever, so we have really no fold equity. Betting this turn after raising this flop is probably the least profitable line we could come up with for this hand.

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Hi Joshua if we hadn't picked up the flush draw are you bet/folding the turn? If you check the turn are you folding the river UI?

Re: A 99 hand
 

sean: I really wouldn't get into that situation. Raising this flop is the worst of the 3 options.

If I had misclicked and I didn't have the 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I would probably follow up with a desperation bet/fold, checking behind the river. Just because villian does have QT/QJ/TJ here sometimes.

Re: A 99 hand
 

Id like to know whether ppl call or fold the flop, which they prefer. I think really thats the most intresting streets as the later streets almost play themselves.

As played turn is fine (if u are calling the flop, it makes no sense folding to a bet on this turn), river is a bet imo. If he has a spade hes almost always following through and u will be called by a K or A here. If you did decide to raise the flop, check the turn, call or bet the river.

Re: A 99 hand
 

I would raise the flop, to charge flush draws / gutshots + overs to your 99.

@ OP. I would check the turn behind in this situation and not bet it if I had raised the flop.

True

Re: A 99 hand
 

Here's the thing. In an optimsitc scenario if he has a flush draw, he has 7s8s which you are 70/30 to win. But say he has Q5s this flop is a coinflip. If u give him something like JTs or QJs he's a 2-1 favorite. If all he has is a gutshot (no flush draw), its a COINFLIP.

You are not really charging anything (as most of the time u are putting in the bet as a marginal favorite/coinflip or a dog, and if he's aggressive he's libal to bump it up a notch and 3bet (this does happen, but not horribly often), and really if u get 3bet on this flop u have no idea where u are at). He could have an A, a K, or just a gutshot w/ a draw or just a draw. He could force you into making an incorrect fold. You also have no folding equity on the flop, except for a bluff and why stop that.

I think if anywhere, the flop is the last place u want to put in a raise. If you really want to raise, plan to put it in on the turn. Also, say you are going to the river in this hand, you call the flop, the spade comes on the turn...you raise after calling the flop bet, u get 3bet, you are almost always beat and can fold as your flush is unlikely to give u the winning hand. All in all though, call flop and call turn is good imo, unless your turn raise on the flush card will get him to fold a better hand.

Re: A 99 hand
 

I need to reiterate this.

On this flop, it is very clear that Fold is better than Call is better than Raise.

We are way behind when we're behind, and we are marginally ahead when we're ahead. He's could not possibly be screwing around here more than 50% of the time, and this is a very small pot. Easy, Peasy, Fold.

The only reason to get involved on this flop is for metagame reasons; if the guy has been donkbetting alot or if you've been folding to donkbets alot.

Re: A 99 hand
 

Easy flop fold for me, I can't believe people want to continue.

Re: A 99 hand
 

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I think you should have raised this flop, you will then often get to showdown cheaply and may not have to put any money in. You have a lot of fold equity by raising this flop.

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I see a great argument for folding. I can even see an argument even for calling. But I can see no argument for raising this flop. Its spewing chips.

PS: JoshuaD said it perfectly already. Listen to the man, he is right.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]