I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

The situation:

On-line tournament, three players, UTG goes all in with about $3500. SB calls all in with about $3500. I have about $1000 in the BB holding pocket aces.

I folded, figuring to lock up second place. One of the other two would be out or severely crippled after the hand with anything other than a chop.

Correct move or not?

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

i'm not all that good at tournaments. but in this case, that's a tough call. KK i would fold, but AA has everyone beat, unless someone else has the other two Aces. it'd be a hard fold for me, but you're almost sure to move up in the money.

on second thought, no, i couldn't do it. doesn't matter who wins the hand, b/c you're going to be at a 7-1 chip disadvantage...hard to make up. i'da pushed. but like i said, i'm not very good.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

Others might disagree...I think you should have pushed your chips to the center here...unless the payout structure for this tournament was much different than the ones I play on Party, your gain from 3rd to 2nd place wasn't as significant as the gain from 3rd to 1st place. If you call and lose, OK, 3rd place. If you sit and win, yes, you're almost guaranteed 2nd, but you're a lock not to finish 1st, as whomever wins the pot will have 7K in chips to your 1K.

By pushing, at least you've gotten all your chips in, against both opponents, with the guaranteed best hand.

I would rate this differently if there were four players remaining, but seeing as you're already in the money, why not try to win 1st place?

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

Wrong move in my opinion, if you go in with them you prob have 50% chance of having 3000, and if so one of them will still be crippled, not only will you have a lock on 2nd you will have a reasonable chance of winning. Extremely weak.

Regards ML

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

Not. The real money is Sngs is in first place.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

PUSH.

you have the nuts. you already placed, and your going for first aren't you? Sometimes when you go for first 3rd happens.

Also - your in the BB - so how much of your stack did you committ already? probably at least 300 or 400 of it if your this deep in. So you can triple up to about 4K - and be heads in much better shape.

Let's say you fold - now your in the SB - and half into the pot with random cards. If the guy with more chips loses - lets say he had the other guy covered by 200. So he is automaticlly in. Now you have to play the small blind with your random hand vs. his - and if he wins, he is actually ahead of you , so 2nd isn't even a guarantee if you sit out.

IMO the only time to fold a hand like AA, or KK is when you know you can fold into the money, but your already in the money.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO the only time to fold a hand like AA, or KK is when you know you can fold into the money, but your already in the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good luck with that, but no way would i ever fold AA or KK on the bubble to limp into the money. Its all going in the middle and if I crash and burn so be it.

Regards Mack

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

Just to clearify- I'm not going to fold it every time on the bubble.

It depends on the situation, tourney payouts, stack sizes, position, etc. But I don't think I could ever fold it once I've reached the money.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

Push. The calculation is very simple and straight out of TPFAP.

In the Party $10 prize structure, folding guarantees you $30 (call it $32.5, just on the off chance you can come back.)

Pushing against their two hands gives you a ~25% chance at busting with $20; the 75% of the time that you win, you'll have 3K chips against the other guy's 5K and a 35% chance to win $50/65% chance to win $30 (actually, 37.5%/62.5%, but we'll round it down). Two thirds of 75% is 50%, so the total breakdown if you call is:
25%- win $50 ($12.5)
50%- win $30 ($15)
25%- win $20 ($5)

So, the EV of calling and folding are identical, *if* you feel that you are of equal skill level to your opponent and you will finish basically according to your chip count.

But your opponents suck, and you will probably finish higher than your chip sizes warrant. Therefore, push.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

EV of both strategies are identical but one has a variance of zero...

Thanks. I felt it was a blunder as soon as I hit the fold button
 

but it was too late to change. Thanks.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

Zero variance? What if they tie?

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

It seems like every couple of days there's another post regarding folding aces. Here's my hubble advice:

NEVER FOLD ACES PREFLOP. NEVER.

Of course there's the hypothetical times when you're in the BB on the first hand and all of the other players go all in, or the hypothetical situation in TPFAP, but really, how often do you find yourself in these situations?

PS I think you should've called.

I FOLDED AA One time - flame me if you want
 

I still think it was the right play.

Final Table of an MTT - 8 people left, and prizes start escalating quickly here. I'm in 2nd chip position, and on the button.

EP is the short stack - and he moves all in. Raised by guy in LP. Re- raised all in by the guy in CO by the Big stack at the table.

I decide I don't care my cards, I'm not gonna tangle with the only guy who can take me out here - so I fold.

Right or wrong - I went on to win it all - so I guess it at least paid off.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

I call. You haven't told us the payout structure, though.

Re: I folded AA. Was this the correct move?
 

Well.... the situation would have to be extreme to the utmost, which this isn't. There was a situation earlier on the MTT forum (I forget who posted it) where the guy lost in the SB and had like T700 left with the blinds T5000/T10000 on the button; 18 places pay 21 players left. Since even 4xing up would still barely give him half a small blind, so say he managed to 4x himself and then 3x himself he STILL wouldn't be able to post the BB without going allin. Thus his chances for moving up in the money were essentially zero, not enough to compensate for the chance his aces would lose.

But anyway, this situation is not nearly as extreme as that one, since you have a very good chance of taking first if you call. So, easy call.

Re: I FOLDED AA One time - flame me if you want
 

From a mathematical point of view it's a definite call. From an emotional point of view, it gets a little closer. If having your aces cracked is gonna send you into a month long tilt, where you go on to lose a good chunk of your bankroll then fold away.

"Fortune favors the bold"

Re: I FOLDED AA One time - flame me if you want
 

Ive had AA cracked my fair share of times - so It by itself wasn't going to send me on tilt.

As you said I was probably playing the emotion. I didn't want to bust out in 8th - to the one guy who could have busted me, when I was looking at a top 3 finish.

Re: I FOLDED AA One time - flame me if you want
 

Were you 80% sure you could make it to the top 3 without doubling your chips?

I'd autocall, because as the massive chipleader, I'd be 80% sure I could make it to top 2. I play my best game shorthanded, though.

Re: I FOLDED AA One time - flame me if you want
 

I was probably foolishly 100% Sure.

Like I said - It was made on emotion. I would have been totally PO'd to go from 2nd to out in one hand.

To me it was all risk/reward.
Risk - out in 8th (bout 4x the buy in)
Reward - still in dominating chip position